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Question about the 5x5 Program

Posted: Sat Aug 28, 2010 4:03 pm
by mick8
This topic had been discussed here http://exrx.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=4 ... l&start=15 but the last post was 2years ago so i decided to start a new thread. Maybe the mods can merge it.

I've got a good grasp of Myofibrial Hypertrophy & sarcoplasmic Hypertrophy. I've been doing the 5x5 program and am about to start my 8th week and I've noticed significant mass gains. On my next cycle, my goal is to get really, really big and extremely strong. I could do 5-8 reps for a mixture of both strength and mass or i could do a 6-12 reps for muscular gains then on the next cycle do a 5x5 again.

My Question now is:

01. If i stick to a 5x5 program,provided that i take enough rest and have a proper diet, would it take me a longer time to get big rather than a program that utilizes a 6-12 rep range. I know that 1-5 is for building strength, but doesn't getting stronger also means getting bigger?

02. If doing 1-5 reps is for getting stronger, How come I've gained mass doing the 5x5 program?

I was thinking of doing Joe Defranco's Built like a Badass Program http://www.defrancostraining.com/store/ ... 1&featured or Zach Even – Esh's Underground Strength System http://undergroundstrengthmanual.com/ It's for athletes but maybe I could benefit from it

Thanks

Posted: Sat Aug 28, 2010 5:13 pm
by stuward
5x5 is in the sweet spot between strength and size. 5 reps means you're using a fairly heavy weight and 5x5 means 25 reps which is fairly significant volume. To specialize in strength you might want to explore the 1-3 rep/set range and for size you might want to try the 50-100 reps/workout range. Anywhere in the middle will be a blend. You would have to try them to see if you respond better or not. You body does adapt to rep ranges and variety is good.

Posted: Sat Aug 28, 2010 6:17 pm
by Jebus
You might be interested in German Volume Trainging, which is 10 x 10.

Re: Question about the 5x5 Program

Posted: Sat Aug 28, 2010 7:27 pm
by pdellorto
mick8 wrote:I was thinking of doing Joe Defranco's Built like a Badass Program http://www.defrancostraining.com/store/ ... 1&featured or Zach Even – Esh's Underground Strength System http://undergroundstrengthmanual.com/ It's for athletes but maybe I could benefit from it
Since Stu already answered your questions, I'll just comment on these.

I'm biased with regards to BLAB, since I a) workout at Joe's gym and b) my coach John is one of the co-authors. But it's a solid workout if you can train 3x a week, and it worked impressively well even on the already strong-and-well-conditioned guys at the gym they beta-tested it on. Some guys are still on it - I see them borrowing the Built Like A Badass binder every workout and following it.

I haven't seen Zach's program at all, so I can't comment.

You can also try other programs, like Dan John's mass gain program:
http://www.t-nation.com/free_online_art ... ade_simple


Or 5/3/1 and put the emphasis on higher-volume assistance work:

http://strength-basics.blogspot.com/200 ... 5-3-1.html

Hope that helps.

Posted: Sat Aug 28, 2010 8:04 pm
by bam
If nothing else, these programs are fun reads.

Also, they are all similar in a few respects. They feature main lifts/exercises that end with a blowout set. The main lifts are <1 RM. There's assistance work after the main lifts. And there's a deload phase/week. Must be something to that.

Posted: Sun Aug 29, 2010 12:30 pm
by mick8
stuward wrote:5x5 is in the sweet spot between strength and size. 5 reps means you're using a fairly heavy weight and 5x5 means 25 reps which is fairly significant volume. To specialize in strength you might want to explore the 1-3 rep/set range and for size you might want to try the 50-100 reps/workout range. Anywhere in the middle will be a blend. You would have to try them to see if you respond better or not. You body does adapt to rep ranges and variety is good.
You are definitely right. the 5x5 program really worked for me well. It made me stronger and it added mass onto my body. I will definitely try the 1-3 rep range. When I start my 10th week I will be doing a program with 5-8 rep ranges.

Jebus wrote:You might be interested in German Volume Trainging, which is 10 x 10.
I've read in articles that it's a good training program for adding more mass and increasing endurance. Ill give it a try once I become advanced in weightlifting. Thanks for recommending it.

pdellorto wrote:Since Stu already answered your questions, I'll just comment on these.

I'm biased with regards to BLAB, since I a) workout at Joe's gym and b) my coach John is one of the co-authors. But it's a solid workout if you can train 3x a week, and it worked impressively well even on the already strong-and-well-conditioned guys at the gym they beta-tested it on. Some guys are still on it - I see them borrowing the Built Like A Badass binder every workout and following it.

I haven't seen Zach's program at all, so I can't comment.

You can also try other programs, like Dan John's mass gain program:
http://www.t-nation.com/free_online_art ... ade_simple


Or 5/3/1 and put the emphasis on higher-volume assistance work:

http://strength-basics.blogspot.com/200 ... 5-3-1.html

Hope that helps.
It sure did help! Thanks for posting links to those articles. Dan John's Mass Gain Program is filled with very useful information. It gave me a deeper understanding on the principles of bulking and it would certainly hep me in creating an effective program to reach my goals.Strength Basics is also packed with useful infos.

I do workout 3times a week and I guess I will give that program a try.
Are you a football player? Were you referring to Coach Dan John as your coach?


bam wrote:If nothing else, these programs are fun reads.
We're you referring to the 5x5 program?


Thanks to everyone who replied to my post. These infos will help me in creating a better program. The 5x5 program is my very first program and it didn't fail me.

Posted: Sun Aug 29, 2010 12:51 pm
by pdellorto
No, I'm an amateur MMA athlete. My coach is John Impallomeni, who co-wrote Built Like A Badass with Joe D. and Jeff Carr.

Posted: Tue Sep 07, 2010 8:00 am
by mick8
pdellorto wrote:No, I'm an amateur MMA athlete. My coach is John Impallomeni, who co-wrote Built Like A Badass with Joe D. and Jeff Carr.
Thanks. Btw would you recommend WSFSB for non-athletes?

Re: Question about the 5x5 Program

Posted: Wed Sep 08, 2010 12:41 am
by Immortal
You can also try other programs, like Dan John's mass gain program:
http://www.t-nation.com/free_online_art ... ade_simple


Or 5/3/1 and put the emphasis on higher-volume assistance work:

http://strength-basics.blogspot.com/200 ... 5-3-1.html

Hope that helps.[/quote]

I really dont get that, what is it having you do? I read it/ is it saying do complexes or is it saying lift heavy/ im so confused. It says to do complexes but it also adds high rep squats simultaneously ???

Posted: Wed Sep 08, 2010 11:26 am
by pdellorto
mick8 wrote:
pdellorto wrote:No, I'm an amateur MMA athlete. My coach is John Impallomeni, who co-wrote Built Like A Badass with Joe D. and Jeff Carr.
Thanks. Btw would you recommend WSFSB for non-athletes?
Sure, if you also want be a bit more athletic.

It even makes a great template for a 5/3/1 workout - just swap out the ME upper and lower 5-rep, 3-rep, or 1-rep max with 5/5/5+, 3/3/3+, and 5/3/1+ weeks. That works well, too.

I forgot that there is a "teaser" of Built like a Badass up on T-Nation:

http://www.t-nation.com/free_online_art ... _meatheads

Re: Question about the 5x5 Program

Posted: Wed Sep 08, 2010 11:27 am
by pdellorto
Immortal wrote:
I really dont get that, what is it having you do? I read it/ is it saying do complexes or is it saying lift heavy/ im so confused. It says to do complexes but it also adds high rep squats simultaneously ???
I'm not sure how to explain it better than Dan John did - it's complexes, 5/3/1 for the main lifts, and high-rep squats for hypertrophy. And eating a lot. It's wordy but he's got a lift template in there that explains it better than I can.