Weak off the floor on the deadlift

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pdellorto
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Post by pdellorto » Sat Sep 11, 2010 7:00 pm

Jungledoc wrote:Yeah. Isn't Joe actually opposed to using cleans? Or at least opposed to teaching them to people who aren't specifically wanting to do O lifts?
My understanding of his opinion is that he thinks it's a waste of time when he could get the same results doing other exercises that are easier to coach:

http://www.defrancostraining.com/articl ... posed.html

But then again, there is this oldie:

http://www.defrancostraining.com/articl ... jumps.html

My personal experience is that I don't see a lot of O-lifting there. Kettlebell snatches, sure, jumps, yeah, all the explosive stuff you see in my workouts and a few even I don't do (although there aren't a lot). I'm sure they'd teach me if I asked, I'm paying for the training, but I don't care how they train me as long as my mat strength goes up.


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Post by Jason Nunn » Mon Sep 13, 2010 6:03 am

pdellorto wrote:My personal experience is that I don't see a lot of O-lifting there. Kettlebell snatches, sure, jumps, yeah, all the explosive stuff you see in my workouts and a few even I don't do (although there aren't a lot). I'm sure they'd teach me if I asked, I'm paying for the training, but I don't care how they train me as long as my mat strength goes up.
Yeah, I think I read somewhere that he didn't teach olympic lifts because he felt like they take too much time. I can kind of see his point. I do the same thing if I've got an athlete who is only going to be with me in the short term. (Some only have 6 weeks with me) Athletes, and other general fitness clients for that matter, that are going to be with me long term will learn to olympic lift.

I guess there's more than one way to skin a cat, and if Joe's athletes are getting better and are doing so injury free, then that's what matters most.

I tried to find some research on power production of kettlebells vs oly lifts but only found one and it's methods were a bit suspect. It did find that oly lifts were better for lower body power development, but the age range of the 19 participants was 20-72 :eek:

Back on topic, the reason I suggested cleans is yes for the triple extension. I've noticed that my bar speed is greater when I train cleans regularly, than when I don't. Think of a clean as a speed deadlift. The only difference between the two (besides a little technique change) is that speed deadlift is terminal and a clean is not.

pdellorto
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Post by pdellorto » Mon Sep 13, 2010 6:56 am

Jason Nunn wrote:Yeah, I think I read somewhere that he didn't teach olympic lifts because he felt like they take too much time. I can kind of see his point. I do the same thing if I've got an athlete who is only going to be with me in the short term. (Some only have 6 weeks with me) Athletes, and other general fitness clients for that matter, that are going to be with me long term will learn to olympic lift.
I think it's a combo of things - they get a lot of athletes for only a short period of time - 4 weeks, 6 weeks, etc. So they don't teach them the O-lifts and use simpler, easier to coach and load methods - pretty much everyone can learn to jump and land properly in a single 5-10 rep set, nevermind a single session.

And since that demonstrably works for those athletes for 6 weeks, why change the method when you have 7 or 8 or whatever?

They cater to the athlete's sport, too. You don't see me speed benching, for example, although you may occasionally see me speed squatting. I don't know that anyone has ever come in looking to learn the O-lifts, either. So it feeds on itself...

Jason Nunn wrote:Back on topic, the reason I suggested cleans is yes for the triple extension. I've noticed that my bar speed is greater when I train cleans regularly, than when I don't. Think of a clean as a speed deadlift. The only difference between the two (besides a little technique change) is that speed deadlift is terminal and a clean is not.
Yeah, understood. And thanks.

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Post by Jeannay » Wed Sep 15, 2010 2:21 pm

I had also a problem to get the bar off the floor.
the reason for this was that all my reps were not fully completed, i didnt lower the bar till floor and raise it , i already rose it back from my mid shins.. these "half"reps ultimately lead to my weakness, because i skipped the part off the floor except for the first repition.
Perhaps this reason also applies to you.

Hope i could help(btw deadlifting without shoes or with flat shoes, also help in this part of the lift)

Jeannay

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Post by pdellorto » Wed Sep 15, 2010 7:12 pm

Jeannay wrote:Hope i could help(btw deadlifting without shoes or with flat shoes, also help in this part of the lift)
Thanks for the post. I'm lifting in Chuck Taylor All-Stars (at the gym) or barefoot (at home) so I'm right there with the flat shoes.

I don't bounce the weight on reps, and we're talking max singles anyway. I couldn't start it higher if I wanted to, not without calling it a rack pull. But yeah, if you always bounce the reps or basically stop just below the knee on reps, you're missing out a little.


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