Who is Right, Who is Wrong?

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Jungledoc
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Who is Right, Who is Wrong?

Post by Jungledoc » Mon Oct 18, 2010 7:29 pm

For those of us who pay attention, who try to learn more, who try to really understand what we're doing it gets a bit frustrating at time. Good, knowledgeable, successful coaches, trainers, researchers, experts give differing advice. Is one simply right, the other simply wrong? Sometimes. Are They giving advice that is different for different target audiences? If so, which am I in? Are they giving advice that applies differently for different body types? Different training goals? If so, which applies to me.

If I am following one method or the other, when should I change? Every time I read something new by a respected author? Only after finding a consensus by different authors? Or should I stick doggedly to what I'm doing now and never change?

As I think about it, I can come with dozens of examples, but maybe I'd rather keep it general for the purposes of discussion. This post started out to be a bout a particular example, but as I rambled, I decided to leave this general and start another thread about the particular details I'm debating in my own mind at the moment.


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Post by nygmen » Mon Oct 18, 2010 8:05 pm

This is why a lot of times I feel like experience trumps theory.

No one likes to waste 12 weeks trying out some new idea, but sometimes it's the only way to tell.

And sometimes you get lucky and know an idea is hogwash 2 paragraphs in. ;)

EDIT: And by theory I mean blindly following or misinterpreting scientific studies on non-trained people to be included in the term "theory"

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Post by NightFaLL » Mon Oct 18, 2010 8:12 pm

I just assume I'm always right. Ignorance is bliss, right? ;)

Honestly, I originally started off focusing on people with experience - then I started moving towards people with scientific backing - and now I'm starting to move towards a mixture of the two.

Lyle McDonald's stuff for the longest time had me 100% sure I knew what I was doing, but the fact is - with his scientific evidence - he has essentially proven I'm a steroid user. I've never used, I know this as fact, others of course can only speculate on whether I have.

The fact his 'science' tells me I'm a steroid user has made me really start focusing on my own experiences and that of others who I know wouldn't lie to me about use/non-use, moreso than purely scientific evidence.

So, in my opinion, on something as complex as the human body, people will constantly be proven right/wrong on an almost constant basis - so you gotta 'do you' if that makes sense. :o

Sorry, now I'm ranting/rambling!

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Post by nygmen » Mon Oct 18, 2010 9:11 pm

I want to cosign nightfall's post. I think it is really good.

there are no absolutes on either side of any coin. So much gray area with the human body, no one can know everything.

So you have to learn what your body likes and what it doesn't and just do that.

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Post by Ironman » Tue Oct 19, 2010 2:32 am

The problem is on some of these topics there is no evidence at all. So all we have to go on is limited personal experience, anecdotes, expert opinion and that sort of thing. So there are some topics where there really is no right answer.


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Post by TimD » Tue Oct 19, 2010 6:42 am

Doc, you're absolutely right about good coaches, 'gurus', etc giving differing advice, both giving fairly good results. As in the above w/ Eric and Nightfall, there is no holy grail, just a lot of gray area out there. Just take PL as just a small example. Some of the old timers got good results just doing Squat, DL and BP for multiple sets of 1-3. Now take a look at WSB, which uses reps, assistance and everything in between. Both camps turn out champions. You just kind of have to stick with what your doing, if its working for you, keep the other advice in the back of your mind, fresh, and when you plateau or get bored, give the other method a go for at least a few weeks to see how you respond. Over the years, I've probably tried out just about every method in the book, and over time, I know what works for me, and it's not just on method, it's probably a conglammeration of several.
Tim

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Post by robertscott » Tue Oct 19, 2010 7:32 am

yeah I mean if you have to change your routine ever couple of months or so anyway, might as well try something new each time. I tried GVT on a whim and it was the best thing I ever did

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Post by RobertB » Tue Oct 19, 2010 8:02 am

I just follow you guys pretty much I'm afraid to say.

It started by me checking the sources you link, but very quickly it just became a matter of trust because of how quickly my results improved when just doing as you told me - specifically the stress on x3 body workout and stuwards diet advice (can't name everyone, but stuward broke it down the most specific) both gave immediate results.

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Post by hoosegow » Tue Oct 19, 2010 8:06 am

I have a slightly different take. They are all right. Everything works. I think most people - other than elite athletes - will benefit from all programs. I think, for most programs, the differences are negligible. For example, I hate the crossfit mentality, but for the most part it does what it claims to do.

I think you find a program you enjoy. That enjoyment makes you motivated to work which gives you success.

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Post by Oscar_Actuary » Tue Oct 19, 2010 1:27 pm

I have learned much in the last 6 months, mostly from this site. But finally registered just to throw my significant weight behind Hoosegow.

And to add, sometimes experts and enthusists may not realize that they make "getting in shape" sound so much more complicated.
This site is actually good about not going over board, for me at least.

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Post by JimKe » Tue Oct 19, 2010 1:39 pm

The users of this forum seemed to be fairly knowledgable in both the empirical and experiential aspects of exercise, which is terrific, but Hoosegow is right--almost everything works to an extent. Pursuing the absolute optimal training and nutrition program is when you start struggling, because there is no "optimal" program--each person has different abilities, ambitions and resources. I liken it to a cookbook. You wouldn't choose a single cookbook and say that these are the only recipes everyone should use.

Or as Bruce Lee eloquently said "No way is THE way".

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Post by bam » Tue Oct 19, 2010 3:47 pm

When it comes to nutrition and exercise form I stick to the experts and text books. There are too many wing-nuts online giving all kinds of unsupportable whacky advice. I think determining which experts to follow depends on your goals and at what stage you're in -- and you have to be honest enough to make that self evaluation. And it requires research. ExRx Forum has been OK in terms of pointing me in the right direction. Steward has been pretty helpful in linking journal references when appropriate, for example. I've found the NSCA's Essentials of Personal Training, Exercise Science section to be helpful. Reading Sport Nutrition, 2ed -- a very good resource and myth buster. When I need a review on exercise I form I usually goto ExRx and Rippetoe's.


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