Fat-Loss Circuit Routine - Need Criticism

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Post by Jungledoc » Wed Jan 12, 2011 7:05 am

Immortal wrote:patho, ur just begginning it, its not like your gonna wear your body out in 2 days. Alsokeep the weight fairly good. For isntance if your bench max is 315, keep it at 225, you dont want to have the weight too late. You want enough to actually challenge everything
Immortal, if there's anyone around who can do Jvorek #1 with 225, I want to hear about it! 125 maybe!

Patho, what's your heart rate doing through this? If it's above 75% MHR, then just increase the sets gradually. If it isn't, then either increase how fast you are moving, or up the weight. Don't feel like you need to be maxing this out on the first few sessions. Increase things gradually. This is something to be evaluated over weeks to months, not single workouts.

Building muscle isn't usually a goal of complexes. That's for the heavy lifts.


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Post by TimD » Wed Jan 12, 2011 8:47 am

Pathoslogical wrote:
TimD wrote:Sounds pretty good to me. Try it out, evaluate it, and tweak as necessary for your needs.
I tried it out today, and it didn't seem as tiring as it should have been. I did Bench Press followed the Javorek Barbell Complex #1. I used 40 lbs for 6 reps of each in 2 back-to-back complexes. Should I increase weight or repetitions, preferably?

Not yet. Just not feeling "wiped" doesn't necessarily mean anything. Looks like Stu already nailed it, but I'd go with the 2 at same weight to get used to things, then gradually build to more circuits, with progressive weights. When doing Javoreks BBI for example, I start with a breaker bar, weighing approx 20 lbs, then go up to 35 on a standard 6 ft bar, then go to an Oly bar w/ 5's on, and finish w/ an Oly bar w/ 10's on, but in any case, ease into it.
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Post by TimD » Wed Jan 12, 2011 8:51 am

Jungledoc wrote:
Immortal wrote:patho, ur just begginning it, its not like your gonna wear your body out in 2 days. Alsokeep the weight fairly good. For isntance if your bench max is 315, keep it at 225, you dont want to have the weight too late. You want enough to actually challenge everything
Immortal, if there's anyone around who can do Jvorek #1 with 225, I want to hear about it! 125 maybe!

Yeah, Andy, I have no idea how Immortal came up w/225. I doubt if he's ever done the complex. A few years back, a Master's national champion in OL was using Javorek's BBI to follow up his lift training (Gary Valentine) and in one of his post's over at the Old School forum, he said 95 lbs was plenty for him, and he C and J'd in the 400 range.
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Post by Immortal » Thu Jan 13, 2011 12:38 am

Jungle, the key ways Ive been told is a circuit isnt about lifting light weights until you feel something. Its about feeling something after the 8th rep and continuing beyond that. Take the 20 rep squat workout for example. You need enough weight that you can just get 10 reps with but you force out 20. In circuit training, if you dont challenge yourself, your conditioning wont go up. The point of it is to make your body gain new stamina levels while forcing it under pressure. If you keep circuit training light, then your not challenging much. You might get a light "jog type of workout" but you certainly wont get your endurance to whole new levels.

Thats also kind of why before circuit training, its good to mentally prepare for it a week before by doing something similar to super sets, except this time around its more than that. YOu pick 5 exercises (squat, bench, deadlift, MPress, chin ups) and do 10 reps on all of them one after another and repeat this 3 to 4 times. So if I were to do it, of course I wouldnt keep the weight near max but Id keep it challenging to push through. Id put 225 on squat, 155 on dead lift, 135 on bench, and not sure about m press but ill find something to it.

So the best way to do this is to actually push it through. Even if you do only 5 reps by the time you reach dead lift dont stop the dead lift. If you can finish your reps, simply drop the weight or put it down, take a few breaths and try again until you reach 10 reps. If there is one thing you guys should trust me on, its this. I always see people circuit training with weight they can easily get 20 reps for. Thats not the point of it. The point is to feel like you've run away from wolves and are about to drop.

Im sorry for going on about this.

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Post by Immortal » Thu Jan 13, 2011 12:49 am

o wow tim, I didnt realize you guys were talking abotu a specific routine haha. but still how can anyone ever push muscles to the limit without high intensity? If anyone would like and if anyone is close come down to bergenfield, new jersey and go to fitness 2 and check out one of my circuit routines.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xGMieoTc ... re=related this is one of frankie edgar's strength coaches. As you can see he keeps the weight challenging. So its not impossible to do a circuit with good weight. you gotta push it. and this is just one. if you look on youtube. theres many people who literally break down their bodies during these routines. edgar is a good example to search up


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Post by Velcropop » Thu Jan 13, 2011 12:53 am

You need enough weight that you can just get 10 reps with but you force out 20
Excuse me? If I had enough weight so that I could "just get" 10 reps and then tried to "force out" 20 I would probably pass out and/or injure myself (especially if doing exercises consecutively).

I'm no expert on circuits but what your proposing is: a) a fairly narrow take on circuit work; b) conducive to failure in a newbie; and c) asking for a few hellish days of recovery.

I thought circuits were valued for their intensity, not for their ability to make you feel like you're about to die? You don't necessarily have to feel like you've "run away from wolves and about to drop" unless your training for maximum conditioning.

I don't mean to attack your position but, you know, horses for courses and all that.
Last edited by Velcropop on Thu Jan 13, 2011 1:00 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Post by Immortal » Thu Jan 13, 2011 12:57 am

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QJ8YOxVaLJY here is him pushin out 315 on the bars!

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Post by Immortal » Thu Jan 13, 2011 1:09 am

first of all, I meant its similar to the 20 rep squat workout. Google it. THe point of the workout is to take a weight that you can just do 10 reps with . After every rep you take deep breaths before going down. When you reach higher reps. you have to take even more reps before going down. Ever single thing Ive read about the 20 rep thing has said exactly that. In fact every single forum I ahve read also says you should feel like dropping by the 15th set. But you dont drop. you force out 5 more reps. You can research it if you dont believe me. The point of it is to force everything you got out.

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Post by stuward » Thu Jan 13, 2011 5:40 am

Immortal, yes intensity is important. It's also important that people starting this type of training,(circuits, Complexes, HIIT) start at a level they can sustain and progress from. Remember the OPs goal is fat loss, not see how hard he can push himself until he becomes injured.

During training of this type, there are a number of adaptations triggered in the body. One is triggered by the depletion of glycogen in the body. The body will try to replace that after the workout through fat burn. This is not the same as being in the fat burning zone during the exercise because then the body will just replace the fat from food. The next step is lung and heart capacity will improve due to increasingly intense demands on the heart and lungs.

In both these cases it's the increase in intensity over time that drives the processes, not the absolute intensity. This is not the same as training a good sprinter to be a better sprinter. This is about going from being out of shape to getting in shape.

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Post by Jungledoc » Thu Jan 13, 2011 8:55 am

Immortal--I think you have misunderstood what kind of thing we're talking about here. People are using the word "circuit" which is a pretty broad term, that doesn't really apply to this. We're talking about a barbell complex. In a complex you do rapid reps, usually in the 5-10 range, and go on to the next lift without putting the bar down. There are usually 5 to 8 exercises in the complex. After the last exercise, you put the bar down and rest for a limited time, then do the whole thing again.

This is not a muscle building exercise at all; it's a conditioning workout. It's not at all like a 20-rep "death by squatting" or anything like that. It's more like cardio with a barbell. I usually do it with an empty bar. I added a pair of 10s once, and well, I'll just say that I went back to the empty bar.

I hope the guy in the video you linked isn't a big role model for you. I hate that attitude. "If you can't do what I do, you're just plain inferior" kind of guy. There are half a dozen guys on this board who could match his bench and deads, and with a way better attitude. And his chins? Heck, mine are better than his (partial range, a kick on every rep), and I'm a feeble 57 year-old man who's been training for 3 years. Don't be like him.

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Post by wilburburns » Thu Jan 13, 2011 9:46 am

Jungledoc wrote:
I hope the guy in the video you linked isn't a big role model for you. I hate that attitude. "If you can't do what I do, you're just plain inferior" kind of guy. There are half a dozen guys on this board who could match his bench and deads, and with a way better attitude. And his chins? Heck, mine are better than his (partial range, a kick on every rep), and I'm a feeble 57 year-old man who's been training for 3 years. Don't be like him.
I must agree with this..

This guy and those like him are the main reason new lifters and many women are intimidated and don't want to lift in the "Free Weight" area of commercial gyms.

I'm thankful not to have met many with his same mentality..

Sorry for my little rant their, now back on topic...

Cliff

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Post by stuward » Thu Jan 13, 2011 9:48 am

Jungledoc wrote:... People are using the word "circuit" which is a pretty broad term, that doesn't really apply to this. We're talking about a barbell complex. ....
When this thread started it was a true "circuit". It doesn't matter a lot, the end result is that it's a metabolic workout with a strength component, not the other way around.


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