How to widen shoulders?

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tyciol
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How to widen shoulders?

Post by tyciol » Wed Jan 12, 2011 10:52 am

I am wondering how many ways we can approach this. The obvious way would be building the deltoid (anterior/middle/posterior). That caps the humeri balls on the outside...

But I'm wondering, above and beyond padding muscle onto the arm in the glenoid fossa, can we actually move our shoulder joints further apart?

The reason I ask is, our shoulders are in our scapulae, and they move around. So, I hear people talk about drawing the shoulders back a lot. This makes sense if we round our shoulders too far in front (abduct/protract) since they seem to get closer together in the front, but if we retract/adduct them a lot, they get closer together in the back, so overdoing it either way doesn't seem good.

The unfortunate thing is, I think the limiter here is the clavicle. I can fantasize about stretching the muscles that attach to the humerus and the scapulae and winging them really wide apart, but we're limited by the length of our clavicles aren't we?

I wish there was some way around that, like maybe if I had done a lot of sideways pulling movements (think Sampson standing between the pillars but in reverse with pulleys) it makes me wonder if a more cartilige-based clavicle might be more adaptable and get longer in response to a lot of stretching like that.

It makes me wonder, you hear about crazy martial artists doing stuff like having masters break their bones on purpose. Do you think this could be one reason why? Sort of like a medieval version of how some short people get surgery wheir their leg bones are cut and held in place a small distance apart (like .5 cm or something) so they heal together in the gap in that new length, only done via fracturing or microfracturing or something like that.

Fracturing's obviously pretty bad, all I can figure is if you were doing certain health-promoting exercises to make sure they healed properly and got good rest.

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Post by robertscott » Wed Jan 12, 2011 10:59 am

all you can do is build up your delts and lats. The bigger your delts and lats are, and the smaller your waist is, the wider your shoulders will look.

apart from that, your only other option is go back in time and pick parents with wider clavicles.

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Post by NightFaLL » Wed Jan 12, 2011 12:35 pm

db lateral raises.

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Stephen Johnson
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Re: How to widen shoulders?

Post by Stephen Johnson » Wed Jan 12, 2011 12:47 pm

tyciol wrote:But I'm wondering, above and beyond padding muscle onto the arm in the glenoid fossa, can we actually move our shoulder joints further apart?
Once your skeletal growth is completed, no. And your skeletal frame is determined largely by your genes.

Your skeleton is not elastic. If it is stressed beyond its normal configuration it will break.

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Post by tyciol » Fri Jan 14, 2011 1:00 pm

Muscles also break if stretched excessively, can't the bones adapt to stress and reconfigure themselves slowly over time according to wolff's law and all that?

I've no doubt that if I could move all the other tissue out of the way and simply grasp the living bone and keep it under traction over time that it would eventually lengthen, the trouble is that's impossible and trying to apply that force to the bone would probably just stretch the skin/fascia/attached muscles or the ligaments connecting the joints instead.

It's a darn shame though, if parents knew about this and we knew which exercises might best apply a lateral pulling force on the clavicle, perhaps they could have wider set scapulae.

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Post by robertscott » Fri Jan 14, 2011 1:09 pm

tyciol wrote:Muscles also break if stretched excessively, can't the bones adapt to stress and reconfigure themselves slowly over time according to wolff's law and all that?

I've no doubt that if I could move all the other tissue out of the way and simply grasp the living bone and keep it under traction over time that it would eventually lengthen, the trouble is that's impossible and trying to apply that force to the bone would probably just stretch the skin/fascia/attached muscles or the ligaments connecting the joints instead.

It's a darn shame though, if parents knew about this and we knew which exercises might best apply a lateral pulling force on the clavicle, perhaps they could have wider set scapulae.
it sounds to me like you're talking absolute nonsense.

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Post by Oscar_Actuary » Fri Jan 14, 2011 1:09 pm

why do you care so much about this?

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Post by Stephen Johnson » Fri Jan 14, 2011 2:13 pm

tyciol wrote:Muscles also break if stretched excessively, can't the bones adapt to stress and reconfigure themselves slowly over time according to wolff's law and all that?

I've no doubt that if I could move all the other tissue out of the way and simply grasp the living bone and keep it under traction over time that it would eventually lengthen, the trouble is that's impossible and trying to apply that force to the bone would probably just stretch the skin/fascia/attached muscles or the ligaments connecting the joints instead.

It's a darn shame though, if parents knew about this and we knew which exercises might best apply a lateral pulling force on the clavicle, perhaps they could have wider set scapulae.
Oscar_Actuary wrote:why do you care so much about this?
That's what I was wondering, myself.

If anything like the OP suggested were tried, it would have to be under strict medical auspices - if it is a possibility at all. It's hard to imagine any doctor taking risks with such a procedure for what appears to be strictly vanity purposes.

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Post by strathmeyer » Fri Jan 14, 2011 2:35 pm

What's the polite way to suggest body dysmorphic disorder?

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Post by stuward » Fri Jan 14, 2011 2:46 pm

One point he make is valid.
The reason I ask is, our shoulders are in our scapulae, and they move around. So, I hear people talk about drawing the shoulders back a lot. This makes sense if we round our shoulders too far in front (abduct/protract) since they seem to get closer together in the front, but if we retract/adduct them a lot, they get closer together in the back, so overdoing it either way doesn't seem good.
Proper posture will make the shoulders broader and it will make the individual look healthier and more confident, to say nothing of the functional improvements.

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Post by Jungledoc » Fri Jan 14, 2011 8:46 pm

tyciol wrote:Muscles also break if stretched excessively, can't the bones adapt to stress and reconfigure themselves slowly over time according to wolff's law and all that?

I've no doubt that if I could move all the other tissue out of the way and simply grasp the living bone and keep it under traction over time that it would eventually lengthen, the trouble is that's impossible and trying to apply that force to the bone would probably just stretch the skin/fascia/attached muscles or the ligaments connecting the joints instead.

It's a darn shame though, if parents knew about this and we knew which exercises might best apply a lateral pulling force on the clavicle, perhaps they could have wider set scapulae.
I could propose a procedure to you, but it would involve a complicated system of pulleys and cables, would be very painful, will keep you immobilized full-time for 6 months, and will require someone to feed you several time a day, and to place and remove your bed pan at the proper times.

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Post by Jungledoc » Fri Jan 14, 2011 8:47 pm

Oh, yeah. One more consideration. You wouldn't be able to use your arms for anything useful for the rest of your life. Other than that it's a great plan.

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Post by Ironman » Fri Jan 14, 2011 10:57 pm

Jungledoc wrote:Oh, yeah. One more consideration. You wouldn't be able to use your arms for anything useful for the rest of your life. Other than that it's a great plan.
lol

Well played sir.

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Post by tyciol » Sun Jan 16, 2011 4:23 pm

robertscott wrote:it sounds to me like you're talking absolute nonsense.
Feel free to point out what doesn't make sense to you.
Oscar_Actuary wrote:why do you care so much about this?
Probably a wide-shoulder complex, sort of like how some short people want to grow taller. As early as I can trace it back is elementary grad where the suit I wore had shoulder pads and a female classmate touched them in admiration until she felt the soft spongy foam holding them up and I saw her smile droop. =(
Stephen Johnson wrote:If anything like this were tried, it would have to be under strict medical auspices - if it is a possibility at all.
It wouldn't have to be, but medical supervision would be ideal.
Stephen Johnson wrote:It's hard to imagine any doctor taking risks with such a procedure for what appears to be strictly vanity purposes.
Many would not, it depends on individual attitudes. Just like there are many doctors who don't perform cosmetic surgeries for someone unless they approve of the reasons.
strathmeyer wrote:What's the polite way to suggest body dysmorphic disorder?
Probably not speaking as if someone weren't there.

Let's say this were defined as something like "excessively concern about and preoccupation with a perceived defect in one's physical features". Is this really something unique? Something like 'excess' is a subjective issue. Many people are preoccupied with perceived defects, such as high body fat or a lack of muscle or the presence of acne/body hair or paleness/darkness. At many steps along the road there are those who will dub something excessive, even the desire to hypertrophy the deltoid at all.

Clearly taking an approach to alter stature at the risk of biological dysfunction would be widely labelled excessive. If one shows concern for preserving strength and health in hypothetical considerations of the idea, I do not see the dysfunction in that any more than I do for muscle hypertrophy pursuit itself.
Jungledoc wrote:I could propose a procedure to you, but it would involve a complicated system of pulleys and cables, would be very painful, will keep you immobilized full-time for 6 months, and will require someone to feed you several time a day, and to place and remove your bed pan at the proper times.
Sounds hot, sign me up =) I am curious about your idea, I think ideas should be thrown around regardless of whether or not they're accepted since they tend to be thought-provoking. Not to mention they can be foundations built to bridge into new ideas for others which may have progressively fewer costs and setbacks until it becomes something plausible and worthwhile after successive improvements on the concept by others.
Jungledoc wrote:Oh, yeah. One more consideration. You wouldn't be able to use your arms for anything useful for the rest of your life. Other than that it's a great plan.
Hm, that could be a problem, I think I would require some additional duties out of the person feeding me and changing my bedpan ;)

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Post by Jungledoc » Sun Jan 16, 2011 7:17 pm

Tyciol--your sarcasm meter is either off, or malfunctioning. Did you think I was offering a serious suggestion? Do you seriously think that there might be a way to safe way to actually physically widen your shoulders???

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