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Posted: Fri Feb 04, 2011 7:55 am
by Wouter
Stephen Johnson wrote:
Oscar_Actuary wrote:sometimes this sight[sic]is full of pansies.

Does it really bother you for people to say you are too skinny / fat / tall / short ?


Apparently it does, or Karen wouldn't have brought it up.
How do you know her name?
EDIT: Nevermind, got it.
Stephen Johnson wrote: That attitude is probably one reason why so many female members quit this site.

Let's not drive away members by belittling their legitimate concerns.
I agree with you completely.

Posted: Fri Feb 04, 2011 8:23 am
by robertscott
Matt Z wrote:"I have only been working out for about 2 years, and sadly, the main reason I hadn't done it earlier was because I kept hearing that I shouldn't exercise because I was too skinny." - kab3261

That's horrible. Losing weight isn't the only reason to exercise. Everyone should exercise, whether they're trying to lose weight, gain weight or stay the same weight.
i think this is a very good point. Too many people think exercise is just about losing weight, like they have no idea of the billions of other reasons why it's good for you.

Posted: Fri Feb 04, 2011 8:54 am
by KPj
I actually train mostly women. I also have a client who is "too skinny" - in her words, and she wanted to gain weight but, "good weight". However her reasoning was mostly just because of her arms - her upper arm was way thinner than her elbow joint. That bothered her. It may not bother other women, though. She's a Nurse, too, so atleast has an idea of what's "healthy" and what's not. However, she was just chasing a "look".

Anyway, I don't know much about women. The more I think I know, the more clueless I become. So I just accept I don't know very much and try and just listen, which seems to help. Concentrate on the "look" you want and forget about numbers - that would be my advice. No one can tell you what look to go for. I have clients who think Jessica Beil is far too muscley, and clients who think she has the perfect body. It's individual.

Body Image is a huge issue - for men aswell Remember the majority of men train to "look good nekkid". However it's still very individual. Some guys think bodybuilders are "too big", some guys think you're small unless you're "heyoooge".

Anyway, my advice to Karen would be to keep doing what you're doing. To be honest BMI, despite being a national standard as an indicator of "health", actually tells us very little about how healthy we are. For example my BMI is 29. I'm bordeline obese. However my bodyfat is low. So, the "look" vs "the number" is wildly off. In November my BMI was 31, and i was at the bodyfat level of only-kinda-sorta-having-abs-in-the-morning. However I certainly didn't look obese, and deffinitly do not look like a BB. I get family members telling me I shouldn't get "any bigger". I get gym members/friends telling my I need to bulk up. However, I know what i'm training for, and I enjoy training for it. I generally make progress. Since I make progress and enjoy it, I feel good. Due to this, other peoples comments just fly over my head.

I guess the point is just enjoy the process of what you're doing. It'll "empower" you. People who don't train can subconsciously try and put you down. They generally don't know they're doing it, so don't take it personally. It's like a subconscious form of jealousy. You should take it as a compliment :grin:

KPj

Posted: Fri Feb 04, 2011 2:04 pm
by Oscar_Actuary
Stephen Johnson wrote:
Lets' toughen up a bit.

Gosh damn victim society.
That attitude is probably one reason why so many female members quit this site.

Let's not drive away members by belittling their legitimate concerns.
Why would someone leave a site because of this? And, why would that drive women away, more than men? I certainly would be just as likely to say it to a man, manybe more so, being a bit mre understanding. Oh well, nothing to fight about.

I don't plan on stopping my honesty.

Posted: Fri Feb 04, 2011 2:48 pm
by GTO
KPj
Anyway, I don't know much about women.
Had to laugh, been married almost 15 years, have a daughter and that statement is the same as the day I was born.

Posted: Fri Feb 04, 2011 2:58 pm
by Stephen Johnson
Oscar_Actuary wrote:sometimes this sight[sic]is full of pansies.

Does it really bother you for people to say you are too skinny / fat / tall / short ?

Oscar_Actuary wrote:Why would someone leave a site because of this? And, why would that drive women away, more than men? .
Try to connect the dots.

Flaming (name calling) is the number one reason why many people avoid internet message boards. Pansy isn't exactly a term of endearment.
KPj wrote:People who don't train can subconsciously try and put you down. They generally don't know they're doing it, so don't take it personally. It's like a subconscious form of jealousy. You should take it as a compliment :grin:
Both of you said pretty much the same thing - don't sweat it - but there is a world of difference in how you said it and KPj did. The reason why is pretty clear:
KPj wrote:Anyway, I don't know much about women. The more I think I know, the more clueless I become. So I just accept I don't know very much and try and just listen, which seems to help.
You can be honest without being rude. But this is Karen's thread, so that is my last word on this side topic.

Posted: Fri Feb 04, 2011 3:38 pm
by Oscar_Actuary
I wasn't calling Karen , or specifcally Karen a pansy, mostly the regulars here who catered to it. lol. There are real problems in life, geting "harrased" for being "skinny" would not rank up there. I say this as a fat ass.

And catering to someone that migt leave because some outlier like me shots "pansy" come on? We're not on a membership drive here, and give her some credit.

Posted: Fri Feb 04, 2011 5:40 pm
by Jungledoc
KPj wrote:Anyway, I don't know much about women. The more I think I know, the more clueless I become. So I just accept I don't know very much and try and just listen, which seems to help.
I just read this out loud to my wife. She thinks you're pretty smart.

Re: How thin is too thin?

Posted: Sat Feb 05, 2011 11:34 am
by kab3261
kab3261 wrote:Have the medical/health fields changed their standards as to what constitutes a healthy weight?

Providing I feel well, and am able to accomplish my daily tasks, is my weight something I should be concerned about?
First of all, let me say that it was not my intention to turn this into a conversation about lack of self confidence or sensitivity regarding the comments of others. Perhaps the different conversational styles of men and women are the reason for the misunderstanding. We women are a tough group to fathom at times :).
The reason I brought up the comments I have received, is because after hearing the same thing time and again, one can loose perspective a little. Also, it can be hard to determine exactly were fact begins and popular opinions ends. What I was hoping to find out is, is there a "healthy" amount of fat one should be carrying around? I know we need fat in our body, other wise we wouldn't have fat cells. To be at the point of anorexic is certainly not healthy, any more than obesity is. What is it that fat does for our body? How can you determine if you are in good health in relation to muscle tone vs. fat vs. skeletal make up?
Oscar, I very much appreciate honesty. I certainly wasn't looking to be catered to (or treated with kid gloves). Should someone have someone have something to say that is brutally honest, but beneficial PLEASE tell me! However supportive words regarding fitness and a healthy life style in a world were laziness and self indulgence is so common, can go a long way.
Thank you all, for your advise.
Karen

Posted: Sat Feb 05, 2011 11:51 am
by stuward
Description Women Men
Essential fat 8-12% 2-5%
Athletes 14-20% 6-13%
Fitness 21-24% 14-17%
Average 25-31% 18-24%
Obese 32%+ 25%+

As long as you have met the essential fat levels, you're OK. Women start missing their period when they start getting close to that level.

Personally, I think people should look like they're at the low end of the healthy BMI but actually be at the heavy end. Of course you can only get that way through lifting heavy sh!#. They say that people in the overweight level are actually the healthiest but I think that it's due to the people that strength train that are in that range.

How old are you? Many teenagers are underweight just because they're teenagers. That's not an unhealthy situation but they could stand to do some strength training. I would love to see more teenagers in the gym but I guess it's not cool or something.

Posted: Sat Feb 05, 2011 1:59 pm
by Matt Z
You have to remember also there's a difference between healthy and aesthetically ideal. I can think of many women who, while perfectly healthy, are still a little thinner than I would prefer. However, that's just my personal preferance.

Also, I think there may be a little bit of a backlash going on right now. For a lot of years Hollywood, the fashion industry and the media in general have pushed the idea that only very thin women are attractive. Now the pendulum seems to have swung in the oposite direction, with the curvier celebrities getting most of the attention.

Posted: Sat Feb 05, 2011 2:17 pm
by Matt Z
Meanwhile, it's worth mensioning (although slightly off topic) that a woman doesn't have to be physically perfect to be attractive. I've met a lot of women, especially young women, who can't seem to accept that. They obsess needlessly over the tiniest of flaws, real or imagined. However, men just aren't that critical unless they're extremely immature, secretly gay or actually trying to attack your self esteem.

Posted: Sat Feb 05, 2011 2:52 pm
by kab3261
My concern is health rather than aesthetics. I will be 50 in a little under a month. Being genetically disposed to thinness, I have had to fight to gain/maintain weight all my life. There was a point in time, not too many years ago that I dipped under 90lbs. Evidentialy, my BMI didn't go low enough to effect my menstrual cycle. I don't want the weight I put on to be "jiggly," but strong and healthy. I do tend to eat a lot of carbs along with protein. Could the carbs be contributing to improper weight gain?

Thank you,
Karen

Posted: Sat Feb 05, 2011 3:32 pm
by Stephen Johnson
kab3261 wrote: I don't want the weight I put on to be "jiggly," but strong and healthy. I do tend to eat a lot of carbs along with protein. Could the carbs be contributing to improper weight gain?
There are two schools of dietary thought on this site. One school are those who support variations of the Paleo Diet, which recommends eating just meats, fruits, non-starchy veggies, nuts and nothing else. Another school is OK with the addition of whole grains, beans, potatoes/sweet potatoes and dairy. But both schools are against eating junk carbs - sugars (esp. high fructose corn syrup) and refined starches (white flour and white rice).

Most of the carbs eaten in the US diet fall into the junk category. Foods made of them are cheap, have a long shelf life and they're easy to prepare. Plus, people just seem to like them. If you're eating them, you could be hindering your progress in growing healthy.

Posted: Sat Feb 05, 2011 3:52 pm
by Ironman
Oscar, you do have tendency to be right on the borderline. It's maybe flaming light. Not a big deal if done less frequently.