How important is incline press?

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KenDowns
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How important is incline press?

Post by KenDowns » Sat Feb 12, 2011 3:39 pm

My goal is weights and reps, I figure strength and size will follow, and am perfectly happy to let nature take its course on which looms larger.

From reading these forums I think I understand how important it is to make the core lifts the foundation: bench, squat, deadlift, and from there to concentrate on basic compounds. After that I leave some time for aux/isolated really just because they're fun or I have some time.

This leaves me wondering, where does incline press fit in for a beginner? If I'm doing Bench Press and Seated Military Press, do I gain anything from Incline Press? Or, put another way, am I tiring myself out on that and using energy that could go to bench and military?


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Post by stuward » Sat Feb 12, 2011 3:46 pm

I would say that you could use it for variety but the overhead and the bench has it covered. Perhaps in a different cycle you might do inclines and dips just for a change.

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Post by TimD » Sat Feb 12, 2011 4:06 pm

Yeah, what Stu said. Just a couple of more ideas though. Sometimes I've found I get a much better ROM using a 35-45 degree incline than with a normal flat bench. You may want to experiment around and see which positions work best for you.
Next idea, Starr, in his big 3, 5X5 format, at the interm,ediate level, broke things down into a heavy, medium, light day for push, pull and squat. For push, BP was the heavy day, Inclines were medium day, and OH Presses were the light day. He measured H, M, L in terms of total tonnage.
One more thing, I've found that an incline at 60 degrees, with a clean (shoulder width ) grip, had enormous carry over to the OH Press.
Tim

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Topic Drift: Frequency for beginner

Post by KenDowns » Sat Feb 12, 2011 4:57 pm

TimD wrote:For push, BP was the heavy day, Inclines were medium day, and OH Presses were the light day. He measured H, M, L in terms of total tonnage.
Tim
This statement brings me to a follow-up question about frequency for the cores.

I know that for advanced lifters it is extremely important not to overtrain, hence once/week for each target for advanced. But I also know I am not advanced.

As a beginner, shouldn't I expect benefit from doing the cores at least twice/week, and 3 times if I don't see a degradation? Meaning twice/week each (or 3 times) for Bench and Seated military both? And then the variety is all about the additional compounds and auxiliaries?

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Re: Topic Drift: Frequency for beginner

Post by TimD » Sat Feb 12, 2011 5:15 pm

KenDowns wrote:
TimD wrote:For push, BP was the heavy day, Inclines were medium day, and OH Presses were the light day. He measured H, M, L in terms of total tonnage.
Tim
This statement brings me to a follow-up question about frequency for the cores.

I know that for advanced lifters it is extremely important not to overtrain, hence once/week for each target for advanced. But I also know I am not advanced.

As a beginner, shouldn't I expect benefit from doing the cores at least twice/week, and 3 times if I don't see a degradation? Meaning twice/week each (or 3 times) for Bench and Seated military both? And then the variety is all about the additional compounds and auxiliaries?
Your assuming correctly. Just keep going as you are until you start to plateua, then start thinking about some periodization, such as Starr's H, M, L or what Rippetoe does and his adv/intermediate stuff, or even Wendler's 5-3-1. All are good programs with ways to beat plateauing.
Tim


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Post by Jungledoc » Sat Feb 12, 2011 6:42 pm

Chronological age as well as training age affect your ability to go heavy frequently. Generally younger people can hit it hard more often. The lifts differ, as well. Deadlift generally can't be done quite as often as others, or as heavy a total volume. And there is individual variation as well.

When you say "it is extremely important not to overtrain" don't be too afraid of this. If you find that you are overtraining it doesn't kill you, just teaches you more about how to train. You just rest and restructure your program.

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Post by Nevage » Sun Feb 13, 2011 12:08 am

Traning how you state, incline press doesn't really have much of a place if you're doing military press and bench press IMO, especially as a beginner. Wait until you've trained long enough to realise that you have a weakness which is keeping your numbers down, or limiting your mass gains then you will need to amend minor details.

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Post by nygmen » Sun Feb 13, 2011 6:02 pm

I'm of the opposite opinion and think you should absolutely include incline pressing. At least 3-4 sets a week. Particularly for a beginner.

Do it on the day you bench, or the day you OH Press. No need to go crazy, but don't neglect muscle group and expect it to magically grow, and not contribute to problems down the road.

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Post by Jungledoc » Sun Feb 13, 2011 8:28 pm

It can be used in different ways. You can use it as a primary lift in the place of bench or (military) press. Or, you can use it as an accessory. You could put it into your routine as your primary upper push for a few weeks for variety, and a little different emphasis. Or you can throw in a few sets on the light side with high reps after bench or press.

Like so many things in weight training, you can be creative. Try it different ways, and then decide for yourself what you like.

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Post by Jungledoc » Sun Feb 13, 2011 8:31 pm

nygmen wrote:I'm of the opposite opinion and think you should absolutely include incline pressing. At least 3-4 sets a week. Particularly for a beginner.

Do it on the day you bench, or the day you OH Press. No need to go crazy, but don't neglect muscle group and expect it to magically grow, and not contribute to problems down the road.
If you bench and press you aren't neglecting any muscle group that incline would train.

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Post by nygmen » Sun Feb 13, 2011 8:45 pm

Jungledoc wrote:
nygmen wrote:I'm of the opposite opinion and think you should absolutely include incline pressing. At least 3-4 sets a week. Particularly for a beginner.

Do it on the day you bench, or the day you OH Press. No need to go crazy, but don't neglect muscle group and expect it to magically grow, and not contribute to problems down the road.
If you bench and press you aren't neglecting any muscle group that incline would train.
Your upper chest isn't appropriately hit with either move to not incline.

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Post by Jungledoc » Sun Feb 13, 2011 9:03 pm

nygmen wrote:
Jungledoc wrote:
nygmen wrote:I'm of the opposite opinion and think you should absolutely include incline pressing. At least 3-4 sets a week. Particularly for a beginner.

Do it on the day you bench, or the day you OH Press. No need to go crazy, but don't neglect muscle group and expect it to magically grow, and not contribute to problems down the road.
If you bench and press you aren't neglecting any muscle group that incline would train.
Your upper chest isn't appropriately hit with either move to not incline.
"Upper chest" meaning the clavicular head of the pecs? Yeah, the whole pec works with bench, and c.h. works with press.

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Post by nygmen » Sun Feb 13, 2011 9:32 pm

I would argue if you are getting a large upper chest from flat benching and OH pressing, you are doing both those lifts wrong, lol.

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Post by Jungledoc » Sun Feb 13, 2011 9:47 pm

nygmen wrote:I would argue if you are getting a large upper chest from flat benching and OH pressing, you are doing both those lifts wrong, lol.
Really? Could you explain more of what you mean?

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Post by nygmen » Sun Feb 13, 2011 9:55 pm

Jungledoc wrote:
nygmen wrote:I would argue if you are getting a large upper chest from flat benching and OH pressing, you are doing both those lifts wrong, lol.
Really? Could you explain more of what you mean?
You bench for big pecs (or a big bench, in which case you'll need to figure out what you bench with naturally pecs, delts or tris, and make those stronger and larger). You OH press for big delts.

If your getting enough upper chest activation to cover your clavicle with muscle from just those two, unless you are a genetic freak, either your front delts or pecs will have suffered for the upper chest to have gotten that much work.


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