Creatine

Ask or answer questions, discuss and express your views

Moderators: Ironman, Jungledoc, parth, stuward

Velcropop
Apprentice
Apprentice
Posts: 173
Joined: Wed May 19, 2010 6:59 am
Location: Sydney

Creatine

Post by Velcropop » Fri Apr 08, 2011 1:05 am

So I've decided to start using Creatine to see what kind of results I can get out of it (I've never used it before). I have a couple of questions for any of you who either use creatine or are more knowledgeable on the subject.

My own research has indicated that:

1) It is debatable whether or not you need a loading phase. If I were to Do What It Says On The Box then I would have a loading phase, but of course supplement manufacturers are going to want you to load, you intake 100g+ in the first week alone. Some research indicates it doesn't make much of a difference but there seems to be evidence (anecdotal or otherwise) of the benefits of loading.

2) There's a question of how much is sufficient to produce results. The stuff I bought recommends 20g/d for a week loading and 5g/d maintenance. I've read elsewhere that 20g/d for 5 days is sufficient for loading and 10g/d for maintenance. I even recall a schedule that called for 30g/d for 4 or 5 days loading and then 15/5g/d on off/on days.

3) Finally, how long should you use creatine for, i.e. what kind of schedule gives you best mileage and value for money. Most sources seem to recommend a 4-week cycle with 2-3 weeks off. I've see an 8 week cycle recommended and I've seen shorter cycles recommend with more frequent, although shorter, breaks. (The product I have makes no recommendation as to schedule/cycling.)

The short of it all is that the information out there is conflicting. Usually when that is the case I turn to the trusty ExRx fellowship for it's opinion.

Cheers

Kenny Croxdale
Powerlifting Ninja
Powerlifting Ninja
Posts: 1123
Joined: Sun Dec 24, 2006 10:36 am

Re: Creatine

Post by Kenny Croxdale » Fri Apr 08, 2011 6:43 am

Velcropop wrote:So I've decided to start using Creatine to see what kind of results I can get out of it (I've never used it before). I have a couple of questions for any of you who either use creatine or are more knowledgeable on the subject.

My own research has indicated that:

1) It is debatable whether or not you need a loading phase. If I were to Do What It Says On The Box then I would have a loading phase, but of course supplement manufacturers are going to want you to load, you intake 100g+ in the first week alone. Some research indicates it doesn't make much of a difference but there seems to be evidence (anecdotal or otherwise) of the benefits of loading.
Velcropop,

Loading get you up and running faster. Being that it cheap, why not?

2) There's a question of how much is sufficient to produce results. The stuff I bought recommends 20g/d for a week loading and 5g/d maintenance. I've read elsewhere that 20g/d for 5 days is sufficient for loading and 10g/d for maintenance. I even recall a schedule that called for 30g/d for 4 or 5 days loading and then 15/5g/d on off/on days.
The 20g/d is the standard protocol for loading.
3) Finally, how long should you use creatine for, i.e. what kind of schedule gives you best mileage and value for money. Most sources seem to recommend a 4-week cycle with 2-3 weeks off. I've see an 8 week cycle recommended and I've seen shorter cycles recommend with more frequent, although shorter, breaks. (The product I have makes no recommendation as to schedule/cycling.)
The 4 week cycle is a standard recommendation, with 2-3 weeks off.

There is some variation in recommendations on how to load it and take it.

Another is one recommended by David Barr. Barr's method enables you never get off of it and take it year round.

Barr method involves taking it only after your workouts as a means of restoration and enhancing growth. "Creatine Controversy" http://www.t-nation.com/free_online_art ... cd02.hydra" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Thus, "Cycling Off" with Barr is accomplished by not taking it oin your off days, only your training days.

When you look at the information, all of the recommendations are somewhat similar.

The differences is in the dosage and the cycling process. It somewhat like driving to your house. There are various ways of getting home. Just find the way that works best for you...which means you need to experiment a little.
\
Kenny Croxdale

Velcropop
Apprentice
Apprentice
Posts: 173
Joined: Wed May 19, 2010 6:59 am
Location: Sydney

Re: Creatine

Post by Velcropop » Fri Apr 08, 2011 8:47 am

Thanks Kenny. I did think that it might be a case of seeing what works best for me and thus experimenting for a while. I guess the problem is that I don't really know what to look for in terms of results/differences. I think I might start by loading for 5 or so days with 20g/d and then take 10g/d (5g pre/post workout) during maintenance. I'll probably go 4 weeks on 2 weeks off to begin with and see how I'm travelling.

Paperclip
Associate Member
Associate Member
Posts: 335
Joined: Mon Jan 24, 2011 11:21 am
Location: Indonesia

Re: Creatine

Post by Paperclip » Fri Apr 08, 2011 10:18 am

I want to believe that creatine is good for me after all of the good things that I've read about the substance but I found that there's no noticeable effect when using creatine monohydrate (1 month). My BW didn't increase either. I used 5g/day.

Oh and I don't eat 1kg/2lbs of red meat per day.

User avatar
stuward
moderator
moderator
Posts: 6648
Joined: Sat Mar 10, 2007 5:44 pm
Location: Halifax, NS

Re: Creatine

Post by stuward » Fri Apr 08, 2011 11:05 am

Some people just don't respond to creatine. Maybe it's that they don't drink enough water, drink too much coffee or not eat enough protein. Correcting those things may help with the creatine and it won't hurt anyway.

User avatar
Jungledoc
moderator
moderator
Posts: 7578
Joined: Thu Feb 07, 2008 7:11 am
Location: Kudjip, Papua New Guinea

Re: Creatine

Post by Jungledoc » Fri Apr 08, 2011 5:05 pm

Do people take creatine on non-workout days? I posted a question to Kenny on the thread in Diet & Nutrition, but he hasn't replied. And is pre-workout definitely superior to just a daily dose in the morning? It would be much easier for me to remember to take it in the morning. On work days that are also lifting days, it's hard to predict when I'm going to be done until I'm actually done. Sometimes I think I'm seeing the past patient, then there are 3 more and another hour's work.

Kenny Croxdale
Powerlifting Ninja
Powerlifting Ninja
Posts: 1123
Joined: Sun Dec 24, 2006 10:36 am

Re: Creatine

Post by Kenny Croxdale » Fri Apr 08, 2011 5:51 pm

Paperclip wrote:I want to believe that creatine is good for me after all of the good things that I've read about the substance but I found that there's no noticeable effect when using creatine monohydrate (1 month). My BW didn't increase either. I used 5g/day.

Oh and I don't eat 1kg/2lbs of red meat per day.
Paperclip,

As Stu noted, some individuals are "non-responders". I am one.

I've tried it multitude of ways and never seen anything.

Kenny Croxdale

Kenny Croxdale
Powerlifting Ninja
Powerlifting Ninja
Posts: 1123
Joined: Sun Dec 24, 2006 10:36 am

Re: Creatine

Post by Kenny Croxdale » Fri Apr 08, 2011 6:05 pm

Jungledoc wrote:Do people take creatine on non-workout days? I posted a question to Kenny on the thread in Diet & Nutrition, but he hasn't replied. And is pre-workout definitely superior to just a daily dose in the morning? It would be much easier for me to remember to take it in the morning. On work days that are also lifting days, it's hard to predict when I'm going to be done until I'm actually done. Sometimes I think I'm seeing the past patient, then there are 3 more and another hour's work.
Jungledoc,

Sorry, I didn't see it on the Diet board.

Yes, most people take it on non-workout days while they are on it.

David Barr's "Creatine Controversy" will provide you with some information. http://www.t-nation.com/free_online_art" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; ... cd02.hydra

Kenny Croxdale

ironmaiden708
moderator
moderator
Posts: 1115
Joined: Mon Sep 24, 2007 11:27 am
Location: Kibbutz Ketura

Re: Creatine

Post by ironmaiden708 » Fri Apr 08, 2011 6:19 pm

So I've decided to start using Creatine to see what kind of results I can get out of it (I've never used it before). I have a couple of questions for any of you who either use creatine or are more knowledgeable on the subject.
A little bit better endurance, more creatine = more energy.
1) It is debatable whether or not you need a loading phase. If I were to Do What It Says On The Box then I would have a loading phase, but of course supplement manufacturers are going to want you to load, you intake 100g+ in the first week alone. Some research indicates it doesn't make much of a difference but there seems to be evidence (anecdotal or otherwise) of the benefits of loading.
Loading is not required, you will eventually hit the ceiling as to how much creatine your muscles hold. It's a matter of how fast you want to get there.
2) There's a question of how much is sufficient to produce results. The stuff I bought recommends 20g/d for a week loading and 5g/d maintenance. I've read elsewhere that 20g/d for 5 days is sufficient for loading and 10g/d for maintenance. I even recall a schedule that called for 30g/d for 4 or 5 days loading and then 15/5g/d on off/on days.
Assuming your done with loading, 5g of micronized monohydrate post workout will suffice.
3) Finally, how long should you use creatine for, i.e. what kind of schedule gives you best mileage and value for money. Most sources seem to recommend a 4-week cycle with 2-3 weeks off. I've see an 8 week cycle recommended and I've seen shorter cycles recommend with more frequent, although shorter, breaks. (The product I have makes no recommendation as to schedule/cycling.)
The effects never change so I don't believe it's required for you to stop. Creatine is vital for survival. The supposed issue with using non stop is your body stops producing it on its own. How true this is I'm not too sure.

Velcropop
Apprentice
Apprentice
Posts: 173
Joined: Wed May 19, 2010 6:59 am
Location: Sydney

Re: Creatine

Post by Velcropop » Fri Apr 08, 2011 6:44 pm

More energy I can definitely do with.

What's the deal with the caffeine conflict? Is it just that Creatine becomes less effective the more caffeine you consume? I suppose it doesn't really apply to me anyway since I don't drink coffee regularly (I very occasionally have some pre-workout) and I would only drink one can of caffeinated soft-drink a day, if at all. However, I am pretty big on tea which, apparently, has a fair amount of caffeine in it (depending on preparation, of course).

ironmaiden708
moderator
moderator
Posts: 1115
Joined: Mon Sep 24, 2007 11:27 am
Location: Kibbutz Ketura

Re: Creatine

Post by ironmaiden708 » Fri Apr 08, 2011 7:15 pm

Substantial evidence doesn't exist for that to be conclusive. Continue to drink your tea as you normally would.

User avatar
Jungledoc
moderator
moderator
Posts: 7578
Joined: Thu Feb 07, 2008 7:11 am
Location: Kudjip, Papua New Guinea

Re: Creatine

Post by Jungledoc » Sat Apr 09, 2011 2:13 am

Kenny Croxdale wrote:
Jungledoc wrote:Do people take creatine on non-workout days? I posted a question to Kenny on the thread in Diet & Nutrition, but he hasn't replied. And is pre-workout definitely superior to just a daily dose in the morning? It would be much easier for me to remember to take it in the morning. On work days that are also lifting days, it's hard to predict when I'm going to be done until I'm actually done. Sometimes I think I'm seeing the past patient, then there are 3 more and another hour's work.
Jungledoc,

Sorry, I didn't see it on the Diet board.

Yes, most people take it on non-workout days while they are on it.

David Barr's "Creatine Controversy" will provide you with some information. http://www.t-nation.com/free_online_art" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; ... cd02.hydra

Kenny Croxdale
Thanks, Kenny. Barr doesn't answer the question about non-workout days, so thanks.

Also the link you gave doesn't work. Try this one.

User avatar
stuward
moderator
moderator
Posts: 6648
Joined: Sat Mar 10, 2007 5:44 pm
Location: Halifax, NS

Re: Creatine

Post by stuward » Sat Apr 09, 2011 6:42 am

Jungledoc wrote:.... Barr doesn't answer the question about non-workout days, so thanks.
The only point he really makes about timing is that there's no advantage to taking it before the workout. The advantage of taking it after the workout is for the free ride on the insulin spike. In my opinion, since it builds up in the body, it doesn't really matter if you take a small amount each day or double it up every second day, it will all get stored. You might as well do it in your post workout shake and you can take it less frequently and always in the presence of an insulin spike. If your habits are such that it's easier to remember it if it's a daily ritual, then do it that way. It probably make no difference.

pdellorto
Deific Wizard of Sagacity
Deific Wizard of Sagacity
Posts: 5252
Joined: Mon May 28, 2007 8:43 am
Location: New Jersey
Contact:

Re: Creatine

Post by pdellorto » Sat Apr 09, 2011 7:41 am

Doc, I take 5g a day, every day. On workout days, it's immediately post-workout. On non-workout days, it's whenever.

I'll take an extra 5g on days where I have two workouts, or if it's a nominally non-workout day that turns into a workout day.

I don't load, because I've tried loading and not loading, and it didn't seem to matter in the effects. I don't see a big response from creatine, but I figure it's a) cheap and b) has potentially many positive effects in and out of lifting, so I may as well. At the dosage I use, and by timing my buys around sales, I spend something like $30 a year on it. I figure it's worth it.

User avatar
Jungledoc
moderator
moderator
Posts: 7578
Joined: Thu Feb 07, 2008 7:11 am
Location: Kudjip, Papua New Guinea

Re: Creatine

Post by Jungledoc » Sat Apr 09, 2011 7:43 pm

Any good suggestions for a source? I'll need to buy 2 years' supply.

Post Reply