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deadlift-less hamstring training

Posted: Mon May 16, 2011 6:43 am
by robertscott
I'm going to drop deadlifts for a while, my back has been giving me bother the last little while so I'm going to try and get it sorted before going back to them. I can squat pain free so that's something.

Thing is, will my hamstrings get enough stimulation from just squats? I'm thinking no, so I'm going to try GHRs, only thing is I'm not really strong enough to do those yet so I was going to add in leg curls (gasp) until i can. I'm a little worried because I always thought you should do one hip dominant move for every quad dominant (although I do squat deep to bring in more hamstring).

if there's any other ways to train hamstrings without deadlifting that I've not remembered then all advice is welcome as always

cheers
Bob

Re: deadlift-less hamstring training

Posted: Mon May 16, 2011 7:56 am
by stuward
The GHR engage the glute while training the hamstring where the leg curl doesn't. That's an important distinction. Kenny wrote the book on this type of training, or at least the article. http://www.liftinglarge.com/kennynodeadlift.aspx" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Re: deadlift-less hamstring training

Posted: Mon May 16, 2011 8:05 am
by matthewmccaw
robertscott wrote:I'm going to drop deadlifts for a while, my back has been giving me bother the last little while so I'm going to try and get it sorted before going back to them. I can squat pain free so that's something.

Thing is, will my hamstrings get enough stimulation from just squats? I'm thinking no, so I'm going to try GHRs, only thing is I'm not really strong enough to do those yet so I was going to add in leg curls (gasp) until i can. I'm a little worried because I always thought you should do one hip dominant move for every quad dominant (although I do squat deep to bring in more hamstring).

if there's any other ways to train hamstrings without deadlifting that I've not remembered then all advice is welcome as always

cheers
Bob


I'v started using smith good-mornings for hamstrings I dont know what your back woulb be like with them but I'v found I don't need all that much weight to get a good burn.
Matthew

Re: deadlift-less hamstring training

Posted: Mon May 16, 2011 8:26 am
by KPj
Why don't you do REAL "Box Squats" ? (and not, "squatting down to a box")

They'll train your squat AND your deadlift. The shin position should be very similar to your deadlift and getting off the box is like doing a giant leg curl. You'll basically be doing a "hip dominant" squat. You could replace DL's with them and still free squat or even change them to front squats.

If it works out you'll probably go back to free squats and find them to be significantly easier. It depends on your weaknesses though. Loads of people have trouble sitting back and their weight falls forward. If you have that issue, Box Squats will work wonders for your squat. If not, they probably won't do much but, they definitely won't make it worse.

KPj

Re: deadlift-less hamstring training

Posted: Mon May 16, 2011 8:46 am
by pdellorto
Band-resisted leg curls work pretty well IME, and so do single-leg deadlifts and swiss ball leg curls. Throw in the box squatting sometimes as well, as KPj suggested, and you should be okay.

Re: deadlift-less hamstring training

Posted: Mon May 16, 2011 8:48 am
by Proper Knob
My back was giving me a bit of 'gyp' in the run up to Christmas from conventional deadlifting. Since the New Year i've only deadlifted with a sumo stance and my back has been fine.

Give it a try.

Re: deadlift-less hamstring training

Posted: Mon May 16, 2011 10:35 am
by robertscott
hmm thanks guys lots of good stuff here, I will answer each in order:

@Stu: Good old Kenny, he's forgotten more about lifting than the rest of us put together know. I'll check out that article. Cheers. As for the GHR, I'm not strong enough to do those yet so I think leg curls for a couple of weeks first.

@matthew: Smith good mornings? My back hurts just thinking about that but thanks all the same.

@KPj: That's a good shout, I didn't think about box squats. I think I'll try adding in box front squats so it's a bit easier on my back, but I really like that idea. You're my hero. Have I told you that before? Because you are.

@Peter: I think single leg deadlifts are a good shout, although I'm pretty sure I'll suck at them at first, my balance is terrible but I suppose they'll address that, which can only be a good thing.

@PK: Great minds think alike, I started off deadlifting conventional, when that started to hurt I switched to sumo, then to trap bar, then to Romanian. They all hurt so I'm off deadlifting completely now.

Re: deadlift-less hamstring training

Posted: Mon May 16, 2011 10:40 am
by robertscott
so I think I'm going to do this on leg day:

Box front squats - work up to a 5RM, not a "true" 5RM but a challenging one.
Front squats - 5x10 (BBB anyone?)
Leg curls -> GHR (when I'm strong enough)
Core stuff

In a few weeks when my back feels better I'm going to add in some light good mornings. Really light, like sets of 15-20. That won't be for six weeks or so I think.

thoughts? Opinions?

Re: deadlift-less hamstring training

Posted: Sat May 21, 2011 4:34 am
by The_dog_mom
Why don't you do REAL "Box Squats" ? (and not, "squatting down to a box")
What is a REAL box squat?

Diana

Re: deadlift-less hamstring training

Posted: Sat May 21, 2011 10:50 am
by robertscott
you pause on the box. Sometimes people use a box to gauge depth; they don't actually sit on it, just touch it to make sure all their reps are the same depth. A "real" box squat you sit for a couple of seconds on the box. Gets rid of a thing called the stretch reflex which makes it harder. It's a good exercise but if you're a beginner I would just learn proper squat technique first. Sometimes when I see people trying to box squat they sit down too hard on the box and their back position goes all to hell. Others may disagree and say it helps teaches beginners to sit back into a squat, which I understand, but usually when I see someone try a box squat I cringe.

Re: deadlift-less hamstring training

Posted: Sat May 21, 2011 11:08 am
by Paperclip
When you sit on the box on box squat, do you keep/hold your torso alignment or let the body readjust its position/balance (becoming more vertical like sitting on a chair)?