Max Out on Squats Every Day?!

[Stefan 93]

Hi guys, I've read some article on T-Nation where they say we should work every day and max out on squats every day?
John Broz even says it is safer because:

Failing to train daily leads to more injuries, due to the inconsistent recovery rates amongst different tissues. Daily training is training under fatigued muscles. If you take days off, the muscles recover faster than other soft-tissues, which increases the likelihood of injury.

Is it true? Aren't we going to injure ourselves if we train every day?
And what do you think, how much should we eat if we want to train daily (but 1 normal training, not 5 hours like those lifters)? At least 5000 maybe...

[mark74]

The article is interesting but I don't think we all do, should or can train 5 hours a day, every single day. As a consequence many statements that sound quite general in scope, could be easily taken out of context.

Also if you're doing 30-50 reps every day for 6 days a week, I would expect your "max out" weight to be different from the one you would get by doing 45 reps a week.

BTW I do hear this...

How You Feel is a Lie
That phrase is the Broz mantra. You simply can't listen to your body because it's lying to you. Broz can cite countless examples of athletes setting PR's on days they didn't even want to train, as well as days where the athlete felt like a million bucks but didn't fare so well in the gym.

...quite frequently, and I knew this to be true(-ish) from my previous life as a runner. You can feel like crap and perform well, and the opposite too, even when lifting. However there seems to be two types of bad days, and I still haven't found a way to tell the bad days that truly are such apart from the ones that turn out to be better than expected.

The truth probably lies in the middle, i.e. you should not back off just because you woke up in a bad mood, but you shouldn't push too hard day in day out either. But I don't think there's any way to tell what "too hard" means other than paying attention to how your body feels and some trial and error.

There are also two types of trainees, the ones who don't push hard enough on a daily basis (besides slackers, women also tend to be rather conservative), and who probably benefit from this advice. And the others who have a habit of always pushing the envelope, who shouldn't blindly following it.

[stuward]

Matt Perryman and Glen Pendley have posted about this before about John Broz inspired everyday lifting. It does work, it's brutal and needs to be intellegantly managed. I'm not sure it's the best method for general health though. Here's a post where both of them are involved. http://pendlayforum.com/showthread.php?t=2874" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; (Matt calls himself PMan). If you're interested in this type of training I recommend you read whatever you can by these two.

[robertscott]

if your genetics are good enough to survive the battering your body will get, you'll come out the other side a beast.

most folk I think would just get crushed.

The video of that teenager snatching 200k was damn impressive though!

[jlmoss]

This is the same thing I was talking about in the '1 set working/workout set' thread where I kinda derailed it for a few posts. I don't think it's genetics or anything at all like that. People three generations ago used to work like this from sun up to sun down, wake up and do it the next day do it again and so on.

The only difference now is that we do not have to do this work, it does not contribute to our immediate survival therefore the motivation factor is not there. I mean, it's only been three generations, it's not like evolution works that fast and we all now as a population are not able to do that kind of day in day out grueling work. It's just like the article says, people who work hard and physically taxing jobs simply just have to do it, because it contributes to their immediate survival. The body adapts to the work and keeps on moving.

[Jungledoc]

Yeah, but the workers of earlier generations didn't pull maxes all day long. For the farmer bucking bales, a 125-pound bale is probably 40% of his max. And he usually doesn't do the same thing all day. He gets 8 or 10 bales for the cows, then drives the tractor, then repairs the fence, etc. People can build work capacity as well as strength. Comparing the average guy to someone who has been doing physical labor since he was a little kid doesn't make much sense to me. If that's what you want to do, start now getting really strong, training to increase work capacity, gradually add volume.

[robertscott]

I worked for a couple of years in a sawmill hefting bits of wood around all day. It's totally different to maxing out on squats every day.

[Jebus]

Genetics don't really apply to this, it's just really hard to do this type of training when you have a job and especially if you have a family to look after. The people that do this kind of training, do it for a living, everday of thier lives, it's a full-time job being a weightlifter. If you want to be lifting for medals, this is the way to do it. I'm not saying it's impossible, but just improbable. I'm just using weightlifting as an example, a lot of powerlifters traing this way too.

It was Ivan Abadjiev, the Bulgarian Weightlifting coach who started this type of training and dominated everyone else in the world with it. There's a really good article over at Starting Strength about this.

He noticed that in Nature there is no deload (purposely). You go 100% all the time, do you think a rabbit is gonna go 80% when escaping a predator? He took this idea and created the Bulgarian Method, It was basically Front Squat, Snatch and Clean and Jerk everyday, twice a day. You don't need steroids for this kind of training, as John Broz and others have shown, you won't get the same results, as quickly, but it's possible.

I tried Max squating everyday for around 2 weeks. I felt like $h1t but you get used to it and it just feels so weird, feeling tired as hell but still making 5lbs increments a day. I find 5/3/1 is a much better program suited for everday people, with jobs and and actual life. Oh and this type of training really effects other things it life.....

As far as injuries go, it's squating, if you know how to squat properly and you don't let your ego get the better of you, you should be fine.

[carlito]

The thing with physical labour is, you tend to find the easiest way of lifting things/do what is required of you, plus you're not lifting anywhere near as much as some do in weighlifting. I mean you're not gonna try and carry say a large fridge by yourself, you find a 2nd guy or an easier method, so it's not as intense and can be sustainable over however long you work for. + What JungleDoc said..

[pdellorto]

My opinion on this approach is that it's more selection process than training method. If you have a big pool of potential lifters and a small number of slots for your weight lifting team, do you:

A) Try to find what works for each individual, build them up slowly over time, and maximize their potential

or

B) Try to quickly weed out anyone who can't stand constant, daily, hard training and who can do the O-lifts very well

?

I'd choose B. But if I'm trying to make myself and my clients better, I choose A. Tossing Ed out because Ed can't hack training to a daily max every day isn't helping Ed, and he's paying me to help him.

All that said you can adapt to a daily hard workload. But it's hard and time consuming, and those all-day workers are doing it for work so they don't need to fit this training around their job. It is their job. The O-lifters mentioned about, the Bulgarians, were doing it for a living, too. It's hard to take a set of tools designed for one lifestyle (professional athlete), or a statement about workloads of laborers (professional physical laborer) and apply it to people who don't either have the luxury of being paid to train or who essentially get training as part of their work.

All IMO. It's still a good article.

Peter

[Paperclip]

How about try it for yourself and see the result? I recommend following how the bulgarians do it but if your squat isn't that high yet maybe it's not that suitable due to the very small increments.

My experience tells me that if there's pain it's wise to back off. If it's "just" soreness maybe you could push it through.

[jlmoss]

I worked for a couple of years in a sawmill hefting bits of wood around all day. It's totally different to maxing out on squats every day.

Yeah, but the workers of earlier generations didn't pull maxes all day long.

Ok, ok, yes, I concede. I spoke to my dad yesterday in response to Doc's & Rob's replies since he was one who was working along side my grandfather day in and day out. The work was definately greuling and something I would definately cringe at, lol. He did do a lot of lifts as to what Doc alludes to, but there were times where they'd be lifting some heavy heavy stuff, not every day but close. Also after he found out what I was asking for, he did mention that he was there to see the results of that work from men that were in their 50'S which was tired and very run down and that the work just didn't effect my grandfather like that.

[Matt Z]

"My opinion on this approach is that it's more selection process than training method." - pdellorto

I think Pete hit the nail on the head.

[Stefan 93]

Well, if that was the case he would stop training that 20 year old boy every day (with snatch record) that way. I think it's obvious that he has good genetics, but he still trains every day.

If they can train 5 hours every day with max, then we should be able to train half an hour every day with submax weights and we would progress better.

[pdellorto]

If they can train 5 hours every day with max, then we should be able to train half an hour every day with submax weights and we would progress better.

Better than what?

Plus that's not very clear logic - if I train 7 days a week for 5 hours, you're better off training 7 days a week for 1/2 hour than training 3-4 times a week for 1 hour? Why? Frequency trumps quantity?

If you're saying "more frequent submaximal training is better" I agree. Olde Tyme Strongmen seem to have trained daily but treated it more as practice than heavy lifts. That approach works for O-lifters, too. It works for construction workers. But there is a limit, and it takes building up to, and it'll break some people down.


Also, the point about the 20-year old. Yeah, it's working for him. But it's not a logical extension to say it therefore works for everyone. It's also illogical to say if it does work for everyone it shouldn't work for him, either. It's working, and working well, for that guy in the example. That's fine. What others of us are saying is that he doesn't prove it's universally applicable or vice-versa. What works for me might break down someone else and vice-versa.