5/3/1 Q's

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Mini mahouse
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5/3/1 Q's

Post by Mini mahouse » Mon Jul 11, 2011 2:44 pm

Hey guys, I've been doing 5/3/1 and I love it.
I do the main lift + 2 assistant exersices.

Theres only one problem.
I am what you might call a "volume whore" :smile:
I want to add abit more volume to the program.
I decided to search the web for "bodybuilding templates" of the program and I found a template I liked(changed it abit)

Tell me what you think

Workout A
1 Barbell Shoulder Press
Sets and reps according to 5/3/1
2 Barbell Upright Row
Sets: 4 Reps: 10 Rest: 60-90 sec.
3 Arnold Shoulder Press
Sets: 4 Sets: 12 Rest: 60-90 sec.
4 Bentover Dumbbell Raise
Sets: 4 Reps: 15 Rest: 60-90 sec.
5 Dumbbell Curl
Sets: 4 Reps: 12 Rest: 60-90 sec.

---> To much? Skip dumbbell raises or upright rows? Say your opinions.

Workout B
1 Deadlift
Sets and reps according to 5/3/1
2 Chinup
Sets: 4 Reps: 10 Rest: 60-90 sec.
3 barbell Row / Cable Row
Sets: 4 Reps: 15 Rest: 60-90 sec.
4 Back Extension
Sets: 4 Reps: 25 Rest: 60-90 sec.
5 *abs*

--> Like this workout alot, anything you would change about it?

Workout C
1 Bench Press
Sets and reps according to 5/3/1
2 Incline Dumbbell Bench Press
Sets: 4 Reps: 10 Rest: 60-90 sec.
3 Dip
Sets: 4 Reps: 10 Rest: 60-90 sec.
4 Dumbbell Fly
Sets: 4 Reps: 10 Rest: 60-90 sec.
5 Triceps Pushdown
Sets: 4 Reps: 10-15 Rest: 60-90 sec.

--> I really like this workout, anything you would change?

Workout D
1 Squat
Sets and reps according to 5/3/1
2 Leg Press
Sets: 4 Reps: 10-15 Rest: 60-90 sec.
3 Lunges
Sets: 4 Reps: 12 Rest: 60-90 sec.
4 Leg Curl
Sets: 4 Reps: 12 Rest: 60-90 sec.
5 Situp
Sets: 4 Reps: 25 Rest: 60-90 sec.

---> They suggested Leg extensions but I changed to lunges. Is this 2much? Skip Lunges/Leg press? Tell me your opinion.


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TimD
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Re: 5/3/1 Q's

Post by TimD » Mon Jul 11, 2011 2:59 pm

Well, and KPJ has been alluding to this, the point being nothing is written in stone, and there is no Holy Grail in template setup. At the face of it, you've got a major followed by assistance, which seems to be spread out somewhat nicely. The only way you're going to find out if it works for you is to give it a try for at least a couple of weeks and see how it goes. If it starts kicking your rear end, try knocking the sets down to 3 in the assistance and see if that works better.
Tim

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Re: 5/3/1 Q's

Post by stuward » Mon Jul 11, 2011 3:09 pm

There's nothing wrong with liking volume.

I would organize your 4 workouts with this focus: Push, Pull, Hinge, Squat, not necessarily in that order.. You're doing all your pulling on deadlift day. You should do glute and hamstring stuff then. This is leaving you a little unbalanced in my opinion. You should include pulling on your upper body days. Ideally, you could do a little pulling on your push day, a little pushing on your pull day, a little hinging on your squat day and a little squatting on your hinging day. That would actually be my preference and you have a little of that in there now. I would follow up with some type of carry at the end of each workout. I like farmer's walks, waiter's walks and suitcase carries.

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Re: 5/3/1 Q's

Post by Oscar_Actuary » Mon Jul 11, 2011 4:43 pm

Stu,
I think I know what you are saying, but it confused me. And I speak English pretty well.

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Re: 5/3/1 Q's

Post by stuward » Mon Jul 11, 2011 4:53 pm

Push = bench & press
Pull = chin up and row
Hinge = deadlift, glute raises and swings
Squat = Squats
Carries = carries.


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Re: 5/3/1 Q's

Post by Oscar_Actuary » Mon Jul 11, 2011 8:39 pm

Hah, that part I got.
I wasnt sure if you thought he should split his days up along those lines, adding caries to the end, or if you meant he should do some of each during. I understand that one can d either and, beginners generally do better with some of each frequently.

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Re: 5/3/1 Q's

Post by stuward » Mon Jul 11, 2011 8:43 pm

He's already splitting it up roughly that way, it's just the choice of accessory lifts, didn't make sense to me considering the main lifts.

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Re: 5/3/1 Q's

Post by bam » Mon Jul 11, 2011 9:39 pm

I know what you mean Stu.
For instance if your main lift for the day is military press, doing pull-ups as an assist is a good combo. Bench and bent-over rows, makes sense.... etc.
For every pull do a push. It's all about balance. Excellent advice.

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Re: 5/3/1 Q's

Post by nygmen » Mon Jul 11, 2011 11:44 pm

Mini mahouse wrote: Workout A
1 Barbell Shoulder Press
Sets and reps according to 5/3/1
2 Barbell Upright Row
Sets: 4 Reps: 10 Rest: 60-90 sec.
3 Arnold Shoulder Press
Sets: 4 Sets: 12 Rest: 60-90 sec.
One thing jumps out at me.

Upright rows have a horrid reputation for a reason. If you do them for traps, do shrugs instead, heavy for a lot fo reps. If you do them for delts, do raises instead, both DB and find a machine which gives you a good mind muscle connection.

As for Arnold Presses, I've seen people complain about the rotation aspect of it, but it isn't as hot and heavy as the upright row hate.

Point being, you are pressing 4+ times a week and upright rowing. I would keep a close eye on your shoulder health. You are probably going to need something more than rear delt flies (which is what I assume you mean by bent over delt rows or whatever) too keep your shoulders feeling okay.

The instant you have problems, drop upright rows first.

EDIT: if you do upright rows for "strength", General fitness or any goal that isn't looks based, drop them like a bad habit.

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Re: 5/3/1 Q's

Post by Mini mahouse » Tue Jul 12, 2011 9:01 am

stuward wrote:There's nothing wrong with liking volume.

I would organize your 4 workouts with this focus: Push, Pull, Hinge, Squat, not necessarily in that order.. You're doing all your pulling on deadlift day. You should do glute and hamstring stuff then. This is leaving you a little unbalanced in my opinion. You should include pulling on your upper body days. Ideally, you could do a little pulling on your push day, a little pushing on your pull day, a little hinging on your squat day and a little squatting on your hinging day. That would actually be my preference and you have a little of that in there now. I would follow up with some type of carry at the end of each workout. I like farmer's walks, waiter's walks and suitcase carries.
I like your idea switching it to push/pull/hinge/squat and do a little pulling on my push day, a little pushing on my pull day etc.
Im not really sure how I would set the program up tho ? How would you set it up ?

And would you do some type of carry at the end of all workouts? I've never done any kind of carry exersices tho, but it sounds great.

*Nygmen* I've never really done upright row. Never liked it.
It was just in the program and I decided to give them a try.
I think I'll take your advice and change them for raises.

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Re: 5/3/1 Q's

Post by nygmen » Tue Jul 12, 2011 9:53 am

Mini mahouse wrote: *Nygmen* I've never really done upright row. Never liked it.
It was just in the program and I decided to give them a try.
I think I'll take your advice and change them for raises.
I notice high pulls and explosive type movements that mimic the upright row (or the row mimics, whichever way it works) don't seem to destroy people's shoulders.

But something about loading up and putting your shoulders in that position in a slow and controlled manor seems to wreak joints.

I can't explain why, but I can advise you to be careful with the upright row.

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Re: 5/3/1 Q's

Post by stuward » Tue Jul 12, 2011 10:00 am

For carries, you could do Farmer's Walks, Waiter's Walks, Suitcase carries, etc. If you have the equipment, sled pushes and pulls are good. So yes, I would do a carry every workout, and I do myself. I just mix it up. Farmer's walks seem to go best on lower body days, overhead walks better on upper body days. The best to start with is farmer's walks. Take a pair of medium weight dumbbells and walk a predetermined distance (I use 1 lap of the gym). If that's easy, I add 5# for the next lap. I normally do 3 laps with about 1 minute between laps. The goal is to find a weight that I can't quite make it all the way around with.

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Re: 5/3/1 Q's

Post by stuward » Tue Jul 12, 2011 10:11 am

Mini mahouse wrote:...
I like your idea switching it to push/pull/hinge/squat and do a little pulling on my push day, a little pushing on my pull day etc.
Im not really sure how I would set the program up tho ? How would you set it up ?
....
There are lots of options. One way is to move chin ups to the shoulder press day and rows to the bench press day. (that's the way I do it) Another is to do move your shoulder pressing to your bench pressing day and having a new day for chins and rows. (gives a more exhaustive, less frequent workout) In either case that leaves a big hole on deadlift day which I would fill with weighted Glute Bridges, KB swings, Glute Ham Raises, etc.

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Re: 5/3/1 Q's

Post by robertscott » Tue Jul 12, 2011 11:28 am

nygmen wrote:
Mini mahouse wrote: *Nygmen* I've never really done upright row. Never liked it.
It was just in the program and I decided to give them a try.
I think I'll take your advice and change them for raises.
I notice high pulls and explosive type movements that mimic the upright row (or the row mimics, whichever way it works) don't seem to destroy people's shoulders.

But something about loading up and putting your shoulders in that position in a slow and controlled manor seems to wreak joints.

I can't explain why, but I can advise you to be careful with the upright row.
upright row is hell on earth for your shoulder joints but high pulls should be ok. You use a bit of hip kick to move the weight through the danger zone if you see what I mean

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Re: 5/3/1 Q's

Post by stuward » Tue Jul 12, 2011 11:52 am

There is no problem with upright rows if they're done right. The trouble is most people do them wrong. When you hold bar with your hands too close together and then use too much weight and lift then too high, you can cause shoulder impingement. If you hold the bar shoulder width apart, use a normal range of motion and park your ego at the door, you are probably safe. Using dumbbells allow your shoulders to take the proper path so it's hard to get hurt unless you hit yourself in the chin. For the high pull, you should be using more than a "bit of hip kick" since it's primarily a hip exercise.


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