Missing Reps in non-first Sets, Focus

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Oscar_Actuary
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Missing Reps in non-first Sets, Focus

Post by Oscar_Actuary » Tue Aug 09, 2011 12:17 pm

Maybe title should be “subsequent” or “succeeding” sets.

Basically, if you miss reps in sets after your first set, is it usually just a matter of resting more? Seems reasonable, I mean, if you rest 3 hours, surely you can do what you just did (with exception for a natural variation that occurs at the peak of performance)
So why do I so often miss reps in 2nd and 3rd sets ?
Is this a matter of focus and motivation and will ?

Some may say a more simplified program at my level would help eliminate this issue, but I want to explore other options

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Re: Missing Reps in non-first Sets, Focus

Post by robertscott » Tue Aug 09, 2011 12:26 pm

if you're missing reps in your 2nd set, it's probably a case of starting too heavy

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Re: Missing Reps in non-first Sets, Focus

Post by Oscar_Actuary » Tue Aug 09, 2011 1:03 pm

But I can just rest longer....

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Re: Missing Reps in non-first Sets, Focus

Post by stuward » Tue Aug 09, 2011 1:15 pm

Extra rest will sometimes do it but sometimes, the fatique accumulates. ATP is 99% replenished in about 3 minutes but there's more to it than that. Otherwise you could just do a set every 3 minutes indefinately and we know that's not possible.
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Re: Missing Reps in non-first Sets, Focus

Post by KenDowns » Tue Aug 09, 2011 1:42 pm

Oscar,

No matter what program you're on, every program i have ever read says that failed reps means you are lifting too heavy. In most programs you repeat the effort the next session and if it fails again you deload. This applies to beginner, intermediate and advanced, though the particular deloading methods differ for the different levels.

As for resting, such as for an hour or so, this messes with what you are measuring. When somebody says "5x5" they mean all at once. If you do 3x5 in the morning and finish off 2x5 in the evening you are no longer measuring a single effort. Therefore it becomes impossible to figure out if you are actually advancing.

The only exception I know to this are "challenge"-like programs where you start doing 10 pushups/day, then the next day 11, then 12, and so on, up to like 100 pushups/day. These will say you can do them whenever you want so long as they are completed in one day. But I don't think you're talking about that are you?

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Re: Missing Reps in non-first Sets, Focus

Post by Oscar_Actuary » Tue Aug 09, 2011 2:28 pm

I think I was ignorant of ATP vs muscle fatigue. I "feel" ready to go again, but still cannot get it up for 5 more reps. Honestly, I think I do put less umpffh into it on the later sets, sometimes.
Next time on Press/Bench I'll make sure its not an issue

thanks!

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Re: Missing Reps in non-first Sets, Focus

Post by KenDowns » Tue Aug 09, 2011 2:40 pm

Oscar_Actuary wrote: Is this a matter of focus and motivation and will ?
Not the way you think.

You want a weight that is:

1) light enough to allow you to complete sets/reps

2) Heavy enough to stress your body and trigger an adaptation (make you stronger)

You cannot "psych yourself up" to push a weight you have not trained and adapted to.

The real role of motivation and will is to pick a program (or method for devising a program) known to work and follow the rules and stick with it.

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Re: Missing Reps in non-first Sets, Focus

Post by Oscar_Actuary » Tue Aug 09, 2011 2:47 pm

I would prefer no dissenters on my threads.

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Re: Missing Reps in non-first Sets, Focus

Post by Khronos8 » Tue Aug 09, 2011 3:41 pm

I know this is a wierd way to introduce myself on this board, but I just couldnt help it (lurker for a LONG time).

Usually my second set is my strongest, then it goes down hill from there. That being said, I havn't missed a rep in a set in years.

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Re: Missing Reps in non-first Sets, Focus

Post by Oscar_Actuary » Tue Aug 09, 2011 4:02 pm

Khronos8 wrote:I know this is a wierd way to introduce myself on this board, .
not really, lots of people post in threads and offer no help for the OP.

welcome.


so what is key to 2nd set strength ?

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Re: Missing Reps in non-first Sets, Focus

Post by Khronos8 » Tue Aug 09, 2011 4:09 pm

Thats a GREAT question Oscar, and I've been wondering about it for years. I think I may have read something on T-nation that sort of explained it as "priming" the muscle groups involved... but my memory isnt as good as it used to be. That may have been an article on using slightly higher weight than your working set as the last set of your warm up, then dropping down to fool your body into doing more on the working set.

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Re: Missing Reps in non-first Sets, Focus

Post by Jungledoc » Tue Aug 09, 2011 4:34 pm

Many people feel that a better second set indicates that the first set was still providing some warm-up.

Oscar, you don't really return to peak strength for 48 to 72 hours after a significant exercise stress. That's really what (yeah, oversimplified, I know) adaptation is. That's one of the reasons that 3-a-weeks work well for so many people. "Missing reps" really means the same thing as "lifting to failure", and we've been down that alley a few times around here. So it's a whole different thing if you are missing sets on your curls than if you're missing them on your squats!

So, yeah, I agree. If you are missing sets it means either that you have been using too much weight in the first place, or that you have now plateaued, and are therefore now using too much weight! So you should probably reset (I'm trying to be precise and not use "deload" in this context).
Our greatest fear should not be of failure, but of succeeding at things in life that don't really matter.--Francis Chan

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Re: Missing Reps in non-first Sets, Focus

Post by Oscar_Actuary » Tue Aug 09, 2011 5:25 pm

Yeah, I kept wanting to use "intensity" but did not want the police after me.
I refuse to believe I have to reset again


I will grunt louder.

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Re: Missing Reps in non-first Sets, Focus

Post by stuward » Tue Aug 09, 2011 6:47 pm

Grunting can easily add 10% to all your lifts.
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Re: Missing Reps in non-first Sets, Focus

Post by nickp320 » Wed Aug 10, 2011 9:00 am

KenDowns wrote: You cannot "psych yourself up" to push a weight you have not trained and adapted to.

The real role of motivation and will is to pick a program (or method for devising a program) known to work and follow the rules and stick with it.
stuward wrote:Grunting can easily add 10% to all your lifts.
I think there is a middle ground between these two statements. A large, large part of lifting is mental. I would love to put a percentage on it, but as far as I know doing a study on the "% mental" aspect probably is hard to conduct due to different motivating factors for different people, and ergo I would have no sources. This is why I am speaking from anecdotal evidence here.

Motivation can happen on a set by set, even rep by rep basis. The methods that I mainly experience include, but aren't limited to: music, you "pumping yourself up" (i.e. grunting), and a spotter's motivation. I find that in a setting where I have one or more of these motivating factors working, no matter what "mood" I'm in, I can lift more. Now does this mean my body has probably adapted to these changes already? Of course that's a possibility, but without proper motivation (from my experiences, again) people will not push to that point.

Personal examples, yesterday (also 1.5 weeks of not going to the gym due to extenuated factors): BP first time trying 235 for 8 reps, and if i could 10. Asked for a spot, and the person who was spotting me was giving me the, "you got this, come on, all you" shpele. I finished 10 with no help, and thought I could even get more (and I probably should have...).
Running: Moving along in my cardio program from out of shape to jogging 20 minutes (2 miles) nonstop via intervals, yesterday I moved up, by about my 12th minute on the treadmill hit my wall, put on a song entitled "Self vs Self" and started to psyche myself up, like "I'm the only person trying to stopping me, I know I can finish this," and sure enough I completed my day's work.

Motivation = perfomance? Again I have no scientific backup, but I postulate 30% mental, 70% physical. Note mental also includes knowledge of proper form etc.
(I know I said I wouldn't actually put numbers to it, but i lied :twisted: )


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