Missing Reps in non-first Sets, Focus

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Re: Missing Reps in non-first Sets, Focus

Post by stuward » Wed Aug 10, 2011 10:04 am

I was joking about the grunting, but there is a real increase in what you can do if you psych yourself up. Whether it's benificial or not is another question. It's no secret that people do better in competition than in the gym but it takes a toll on the individual in terms of recovery. If you use psych methods to move more weight in training, it will likely be counter-productive as it will impact subsequent workouts. There is a line between using enough effort and using too much effort to achieve the appropriate adaptation. Just because you can do it, doesn't mean you should.
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Thanks TimD

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Re: Missing Reps in non-first Sets, Focus

Post by nygmen » Wed Aug 10, 2011 5:19 pm

Oscar_Actuary wrote:Maybe title should be “subsequent” or “succeeding” sets.

Basically, if you miss reps in sets after your first set, is it usually just a matter of resting more? Seems reasonable, I mean, if you rest 3 hours, surely you can do what you just did (with exception for a natural variation that occurs at the peak of performance)
So why do I so often miss reps in 2nd and 3rd sets ?
Is this a matter of focus and motivation and will ?

Some may say a more simplified program at my level would help eliminate this issue, but I want to explore other options
I'm 95% sure I know my answer to your questions but answer the following for me beofre I rant and rave:

Outline a bench/squat/dead/whatever day where this happens. (weight x reps) Like this:
135x5
185x5
225x7
225x2
235x3 etc etc etc

Does this happen on all your lifts? Even the smaller ones like curls and the like?

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Re: Missing Reps in non-first Sets, Focus

Post by Oscar_Actuary » Wed Aug 10, 2011 6:28 pm

Mostly Presses - barbell.
For Deads and Rows and Squats I'll complete the sets.

Say OH Press:

1x8 @ 50
1x5 @ 70
1x3 @ 90
1x5 @ 110
1x3 @ 110 (trying for 3x5 @ 110)

Bench
2x8 @ 67
1x7 @ 111
1x5 @ 133
1x3 @ 149.5
1x5 @ 166
1x3 @ 166 (trying for 3x5 @ 166)

For higher Rep work, like curls, I hardly ever have this issue
I mean, I'll sometimes set an expectation that higher than I'm ready for, but generally, if I get the first set, I'll get the next, except for these pressing moves.

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Re: Missing Reps in non-first Sets, Focus

Post by nygmen » Wed Aug 10, 2011 10:07 pm

Okay, IMO it is either one of, or a combination of the following:

1) You are a ramper - I hate straight sets for beginners, and prefer someone ramp up to a top set or two. I use them now, on particular lifts for very particular reasons, but don't generally do them, and never did. So make the jumps smaller and cut the volume a touch on the warm up. Something like:

Bench
bar
70x4 or 5
90x3-5
110x3
130x3
150x5 (First "working set")
165x5
170xAMRAP

3 working sets, you'll get 12+ reps total in a working weight range, and you will still have enough in the tank to hit it with some accessory high volume stuff and recover in time to add a rep or two to your top set.

Seeing as hypertrophy isn't your main goal here, no need to have 25 reps worth of volume.

2) Your technique sucks and/or your trying to lift too heavy. This should explain itself, let me know if it doesn't.

3) You are being a total pussy. The lift is in your head. You probably have long arms, and pressing is a struggle for you. You have issues with it, and therefore dwell on and dread it. Then you miss reps and the obsession goes on and on and on.

The only solution for this is to find it within yourself to push forward. Eat all the suck these lifts throw at you, and just push forward through it.



IDK...

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Re: Missing Reps in non-first Sets, Focus

Post by Oscar_Actuary » Wed Aug 10, 2011 11:17 pm

Thanks nygmen

It could be :wink: that I'm lifting too heavy, (especially not over eating now, trying to walk a line to not gain more fat)
I will subscribe to your ramping plan.
I have been recently implementing something like "once completed 3x5 @160, then I'd set up the next time as UpTo 3x5 @ 165". So, basically planning on something like 1x4 @ 166, then finish off the last 2x5 back down at 160. The intent to work all 3x5 to 166. It had the benefit of feeling the heavier weight, even when I wasn’t ready for all 15 reps (resetting 20%, nah, I'm too old to waste that much time :) )
I am disappointed at the lack of progress for reps I’m getting at the top weight. That morphed into this topic post.
With your scheme, once I get one good set at 165, then I start going for reps at 170, presuming I get the 2 sets in at 150 and 165.
My way would tire me out at the top set and then be less productive trying to get the rest of the reps in at just 5# less.

ok, sorry, to just re explain your idea, but that’s how I see it and it rocks.
:blob:


ps. Always trying to improve technique, that contributes some, maybe less now. Pussy factor is possible. Psyche out ( "oh, my shoulder remeber the dislocations from your youth...") combined with loss of focus after getting the deadlift or squats. I need to treat each lift like I'm doing it for a reason.

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Re: Missing Reps in non-first Sets, Focus

Post by RobertB » Thu Aug 11, 2011 3:37 am

There's just too many possible factors Oscar. Warmup a little, ensure first set form is as good as you can get (so you aren't "cheating" any reps initially) and beyond that... name any potential issue that could make you fail a lift, rest, strength/too heavy, mental attitude, momentum on a pull, how awake your cns is etc etc

You'll just have to experiment with them all, I'd say cap rest out at 4 minutes maybe 3min 30 if you haven't got VERY specific weight goals.

I used to be totally anti "psych up broooo!!!!" but it's crept up on me - the main ones being crushing the bar and breathing with a bit of anger - and bracing my core like a cannon ball is about to hit me.

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Re: Missing Reps in non-first Sets, Focus

Post by Oscar_Actuary » Thu Aug 11, 2011 4:34 am

Tonight I was scheduled to do 3x3 across for 188# squats (I do 3x3 once every 10 days, allows me to lift/feel a heavier weight.) Per nygmen, decided to do
3 @ 182.5
3 @ 188.0
3 @ 193.5
So, next time, I'll likely see 199.

Press, instead of trying and sticking on 3x5 @110, I did
5 @ 100
5 @ 110
2 @ 112 <--- felt good, and then it didn't. Funny thing that Press.

*****

Robert on that "cns awake" part, tonight I worked out after midnight. I'm a night person who is tying to shift to the day. Usually now I wake up a 6:00 am and after some BCAAs, hit the garage gym. All else being equal, seems I'm not as loose or strong then. But that's a shift I'll live with. Being up late after a session being all wound up, is not a lifestyle I want now. Maybe I can consider what to do in the morning to hep me be at my best potential for that time.

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Re: Missing Reps in non-first Sets, Focus

Post by mark74 » Fri Aug 12, 2011 5:26 am

Oscar_Actuary wrote:Maybe I can consider what to do in the morning to hep me be at my best potential for that time.
This is by Rippetoe:
Best Time to Train What is the best time to train? First and foremost, when you can! However, research on circadian rhythms (your body's internal clock) indicate that the summation of several important (anabolic) hormones peak at 3 and 11 hours upon awakening. What does that mean in plain english? Well, according to science, if you wake up at 6:00 am, you are at your strongest at 9:00 am and 5:00 pm. And, according to Olympic Strength Coach Charles Poliquin*, your joints (specifically, the synovial fluid that lubricates your joints) require about 3 hours to reach an optimal level of warmth which will help improve performance while decreasing the likelihood of injury. Also, some people require a meal before training (remember to allow at least 1 hour for digestion) to maintain adequate energy levels throughout their workout particularly in the morning; others don't. However, there is a difference between ideal conditions and reality! Reality dictates that we train when we can regardless of what time it is. The important part is to get your workout in. Today's lifestyle is quite busy and hectic. Many people have a tendency to jeopardize their workouts later in the day because other priorities get in the way. For these individuals, I suggest working out first thing in the morning and getting it out of the way. Actually, some authorities believe that training first thing in the morning on an empty stomach will facilitate weight loss.
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Re: Missing Reps in non-first Sets, Focus

Post by bam » Fri Aug 12, 2011 7:16 am

nygmen wrote:Eat all the suck these lifts throw at you, and just push forward through it.
That is beautiful :tongue1:

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Re: Missing Reps in non-first Sets, Focus

Post by Oscar_Actuary » Fri Aug 12, 2011 4:47 pm

Thanks Mark
Good stuff there. Adherence is a big reason I do it in the morning. When I miss, I'm mad all day - and then get it in after midnight.

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