Is slow lockout on pressing movements a problem?

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KenDowns
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Is slow lockout on pressing movements a problem?

Post by KenDowns » Thu Sep 29, 2011 7:52 am

I've noticed since adopting 5/3/1 that final reps on bench and press on all-out sets tend to a very slow lockout.

It's as simple as this: I can blast the weight off my shoulders/chest, past the sticking point, and the higher it gets the slower it gets.

Also, if I misjudge how much I've got left and attempt a rep I can't make, I can still blast off but I'll have a very sudden fail at about 4-5" high. At that point I drop the bar to avoid pushing against a failed rep.

Is this pure triceps weakness? Tri and shoulders? Something else? Is it even something to worry about as long as I make the rep?


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Re: Is slow lockout on pressing movements a problem?

Post by stuward » Thu Sep 29, 2011 8:03 am

I don't think it's tricepts. I don't know for sure and my press sucks, always has. My theory is that coming off your chest the prime mover is your anterior delts, then it traitions to lateral, finally to triceps. These transitions seem to me to be where the movement is weakest. If you use leg drive to get past the sticking point, you can probably lock out more than you can push off your chest. To me that means triceps are not a limiting factor, it's shoulders. If your anterior delts are strong enough, you would power through the sticking point until your triceps can pick it up.

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Re: Is slow lockout on pressing movements a problem?

Post by KPj » Thu Sep 29, 2011 9:09 am

My sticking point is the same. I used to always be weak off the chest, well, a couple of inches off the chest but it's changed. Apparently the bar shoots off my chest now, even when I come to a grinding fail. I don't know if it's triceps or shoulders, but i'm getting my shoulders stronger and started getting my triceps stronger. Just hit both :thumbright:

Right now i'm doing 5-3-1. I need 5-3-1 right now because of my schedule, and i'm progressing. Military Press is one of the lifts, plus the accessory on that day is 5 x 10 military press (alternated with pull ups). After benching, I'm doing 5 x 10 close grip benching (alternated with chest supported DB rows). Next cycle, i'm adding some isolation for tri's something like push downs or a skull crusher variation (not decided yet). It's deload weak of my first cycle using close grip and military press for assistance, so too early to tell how much it's helped.

I would however love to train it a little differently, using bench variations like floor press and board pressing to zone in on the sticking points (and get used to heavier weights). This is actually how I "prefer" to train but I can't fit it in consistently right now. I would like to have a speed bench day, with every 2nd or 3rd speed day followed up with working up to a heavy single double or triple, plus an ME day using the special exercises (boards, floor, incline, close grip etc), with the assistance on both days hitting shoulders, back, tris, etc, with load of volume (Very westside barbell-ish, really).. I've done this set up before for different reasons with different weakness and also rotated speed bench monthly to swap it out for heavy back work (weighted pull ups, mostly). I only stopped this because I was spinning my wheels, not being able to fit it all in right now.

At the same time, though, 5-3-1 is working, so even if I could, I wouldn't come off it just yet anyway. I plan to stay on 5-3-1 until I stall then switch to something else (I have cresseys show and go in the pipeline, too lol).

btw, It could also be a technique thing. I've seen people drift towards their face far too much on the way up. This will screw with your bar path and increase ROM (so you'll run out of steam before lock out). Note that the bar will always drift a little towards your face but it shouldn't be excessive.

One of my training partners (i'm not always able to train with the same people regularly, so it chops and changes) does this, and we struggled to find his ideal set up and technique because his arms are about a mile long. He also had an interesting issue by tucking his elbows too much. And, he started the movement with the bar above his chin/throat, as opposed to above his lower chest. We brought his grip out, and got him bringing the bar above his lower chest before he started the movement, and a concentration on pulling the bar apart on the way down. Fixed his form, and upped his lift a little - nothing drastic but it seems to have broken a plateau.

KPj

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Re: Is slow lockout on pressing movements a problem?

Post by Kenny Croxdale » Sat Oct 01, 2011 7:55 am

KenDowns wrote:I've noticed since adopting 5/3/1 that final reps on bench and press on all-out sets tend to a very slow lockout.

It's as simple as this: I can blast the weight off my shoulders/chest, past the sticking point, and the higher it gets the slower it gets.

Also, if I misjudge how much I've got left and attempt a rep I can't make, I can still blast off but I'll have a very sudden fail at about 4-5" high. At that point I drop the bar to avoid pushing against a failed rep.

Is this pure triceps weakness? Tri and shoulders? Something else? Is it even something to worry about as long as I make the rep?
Ken,

Top Part of Bench Press

Yea, the top part of the lift involves a lot of tricep strength.

Specific Sticking Point Training

You need specifically work your bench press from your sticking point. We've touched on this in previous post.

Power Rack Partial Reps

1) Below The Sticking Point. Place the bar in the power rack, just below your sticking and work it from there.

Remember, the car analogy. When your car stops, it keeps rolling.

Thus, where your car stops is NOT where you ran out of gas.

Same thing with your bench press.

2) At The Sticking Point. Place the bar in the power rack, where the bar actually stopped...work it from there.

3) Upper End Sticking Point. Place the bar where it a couple of inches from lockout and work it from there.

Other Methods

1) Funtional Isometric Bench Press. This is one of the most effective method there is.

2) Paused Partial Reps. Lower the bar to just below you sticking point. Pause the bar for about 4 seconds and then push it back up.

Kenny Croxdale

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Re: Is slow lockout on pressing movements a problem?

Post by KenDowns » Sat Oct 01, 2011 8:26 am

Kenny, where do I send the check?

Seriously, I was hoping you might answer, and was about 75% figuring it would be the same as my squat issue, but was not entirely sure. So it seems I've got weak arms and legs relative to my core.

I've done those pause squats and they are something else. I may need a new concrete floor to my basement though, because I've discovered on the pause squat that the floor becomes extremely unstable, it wobbles, tilts, shakes etc. :wink:

Anyway, thanks. I'm going to make a quick game-time change to my program to put in pause movements, as today starts cycle 2 of 5/3/1.

EDIT: For bench I can do pause or board presses, but for Press I'll have to do pause presses unless and until I rig something up for my home-made power cage to let me start out higher up.


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Re: Is slow lockout on pressing movements a problem?

Post by uggy » Sun Oct 02, 2011 8:19 pm

Kenny Croxdale wrote: Other Methods

1) Funtional Isometric Bench Press. This is one of the most effective method there is.

Kenny Croxdale
Any chance you could elaborate on how to correctly do this exercise?
Thanks

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Re: Is slow lockout on pressing movements a problem?

Post by KenDowns » Sun Oct 02, 2011 9:29 pm

uggy wrote:
Kenny Croxdale wrote: Other Methods

1) Funtional Isometric Bench Press. This is one of the most effective method there is.

Kenny Croxdale
Any chance you could elaborate on how to correctly do this exercise?
Thanks
I'm 99.9% sure he means this:

http://www.t-nation.com/free_online_art ... _get_nasty" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Scroll down a bit.

I can't do those because my home-made cage doesn't allow for two sets of pins, so I do the pause variation.


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