Yet Another "Best Assistance" Question

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KenDowns
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Yet Another "Best Assistance" Question

Post by KenDowns » Tue Oct 04, 2011 9:28 pm

I'm wondering whether I should put one more slot for quads into my program. Thursday is squat day, so it would go in there if I make a change. Between deadlift day and squat day on 5/3/1 this is what I've got:

Deadlift day I don't think I would change, it is:
Deads 5/3/1
Barbell curls (as a break before going to)
Bulgarian Split Squats (for quads)

What I'm considering is putting something into squat day to make it take-a-mallet-to-your-quads day. Right now it is:

Squats 5/3/1
planks (this is what I'd remove)
Pause Squats 5x5+ @ 50-60%

I'm thinking to take planks out of the program and do them 3-4 times/week in the morning when I wake up. That would leave a slot open.

I was thinking sumo deadlifts, if I understand correctly those hit your quads more than regular deads. So question 1 would be is it right that sumo deads hit your quads more? If so, this would be a 5x5 thing rather than 5x15 as the idea would be strength rather than volume.

With pause squats coming after, that would be a serious hammering of quads, and then deadlift day is 3 days away. Is that too much? I know that's an opinion question and the answer is always "it may be too much for you, maybe not" but I'm interested in other people's experience.

I'm not prejudiced towards one answer or another, really just looking for opinions.

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Re: Yet Another "Best Assistance" Question

Post by hoosegow » Wed Oct 05, 2011 5:50 am

Put something in for your hams.
Thanks TimD.

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Re: Yet Another "Best Assistance" Question

Post by Dub » Wed Oct 05, 2011 6:14 am

I would put some work for hamstrings and back muscles. Maybe good mornings or straight leg-deadlifts?
On the other hand, it looks like you're totally working your legs(quads especially) and back already, so maybe something involving your abs and traps instead? You need them all with squats and deadlifts. Pardon for not looking through your whole program, as you might have enough training for them also. Since the deadlift-day has barbell curls, how about chin-ups?

After reading your post again, I noticed you wanted maybe more work for your quads? If possible, you can always isolate those with leg extensions, or maybe press? What really burns your quads is also an isometric exercise, with pause squatting it could be quite hell for anyone though.
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Re: Yet Another "Best Assistance" Question

Post by TimD » Wed Oct 05, 2011 6:25 am

Ken, to answer your question on sumo's, yes, they are more quad dominant than the standard DL's, but probably more glute and hip dominant. Depending on bone structure, they don't have the ROM as front squats, 1 leg varieties, etc. I have short to medium length thighs, with long arms, so when I do sumos, I come nowhere close to parallel for the start, which allows me to DL much more than with standards, and much more than in a normal squat. Try it out, see where your starting point is, and if it will help you with your needs. As to the 5X5 or reps with 15, hey, I've done higher reps with them, you just have to keep the weight lower.
Tim

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Re: Yet Another "Best Assistance" Question

Post by Oscar_Actuary » Wed Oct 05, 2011 10:46 am

T-nation has article on quad dominant squatting

Front squat, legs closer together, upright back, keep tension (dont ascend fully), heels raised, etc

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Re: Yet Another "Best Assistance" Question

Post by NickAbe57 » Wed Oct 05, 2011 10:54 am

I've read Wendler replying to assistance questions with answers as simple as 'pull-50 reps' 'push 60 reps', depending on the day of course.
But I think, for DL's, perhaps focus on your weak/limiting movement or muscle. If locking out is your problem, try face pulls, shrugs, or bentover rows. If your lower back limits your movement, do good mornings.
Personally, I rotate shrugs, good mornings, and facepulls, usually only doing two on a Deadlift day. (Well, last week i did romanian deads.)
I don't think I'd suggest the 'do whatever you feel like' method to a beginner, but it seems like you know what you need, know a good sense of balance, so maybe you can rotate assistance exercises to help with your goals. I don't think it is 100% necessary to perform the same assistance exercises week in and week out for 5/3/1, so long as you keep a balance. If volume is your concern, just do what you do with 5x10 or whatever.

I dont know if this helps or not, but it seems to work for myself.

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Re: Yet Another "Best Assistance" Question

Post by KenDowns » Wed Oct 05, 2011 11:33 am

As additional info, my current program is here: http://exrx.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=1 ... 7&start=30" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

With help from a few folks here, esp Kenny Croxdale, I've established that pause variations are my best bet to increase my numbers on the main lift.

Specifically though I'm wondering if I should hammer my legs with one more exercise.

For me, Sunday is deadlift day. Squats follow on Thursday after 3 full days of lower body rest. Deadlifts occur again after 2 full days of lower body rest.

If I add another intense leg exercise on Squat day that gives me only two days before deadlifts, which might not be enough. That was the source of my "is this too much" question.

Or I could add another intense leg exercise on Deadlift day. That leaves more rest until squats day, which may be better than hammering on squat day.

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Re: Yet Another "Best Assistance" Question

Post by Oscar_Actuary » Wed Oct 05, 2011 12:36 pm

I would think you can hammer legs and then 72 hours later hammer deadlifts.
I think many people will so a split and DL on back day, within 72 hours of a killer leg day.

that's a general answer

ymmv

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