Deadlift

Ask or answer questions, discuss and express your views

Moderators: Ironman, Jungledoc, parth, stuward

teafan
Apprentice
Apprentice
Posts: 164
Joined: Fri Jul 23, 2010 9:13 am
Location: Durham, UK

Deadlift

Post by teafan » Tue Oct 18, 2011 7:42 am

I've been running 531 on deadlifts for a few months now - felt they were going pretty well until today when I asked the bodybuilder behind the counter for his opinion on my form:

He says: "your form isnt good"

He was trying to show me "how" to do it and was keeping his back almost perpendicular to the floor and arching his back at the peak of the move. I shove my butt out and tilt from the hips, keeping a neutral spine (as far as i can tell), and lean forwards a lot more than her does (I'd say I lean as much as the demonstration guy: http://exrx.net/WeightExercises/Gluteus ... dlift.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;). I certainbly dont hyperextend my back at the top, either. He says that this is dangerous because it puts all the load on your lower back.

He also said of me lifting 105kg (thats at 6 foot 2 and 90kg/200lb - I was only on my first set too!) that it was really heavy for someone my size.

I kind of already know that he was talking poo poo, but the sweat and heartbeats made me listen at the time... I thought I'd run the scenario past you guys and see what you think?

User avatar
Dub
Advanced Member
Advanced Member
Posts: 1142
Joined: Wed Sep 14, 2011 1:40 pm
Location: Lapland, Finland

Re: Deadlift

Post by Dub » Tue Oct 18, 2011 9:05 am

Well one thing I'm sure of is that the sentence "lifting xkg is really heavy for someone your size." Is utterly stupid. Especially when you're not small at all. I weight almost 20kg less than you, and I'm somewhere along 5 foot eleven tall, and I can easily DL over a 100kg. Why would he even say something like that?

About the form. It's not that easy for me to tell without seeing it, since everyone has a little bit of an own view how they are deadlifting. But I would say atleast for the sake of balance you should lean a bit forward. If you keep yourself completely straight, you probably need to get lower, and it might already be too low. It doesn't make sense to me why would you keep your posture completely straight. Also I always keep my back arched and tight for the whole movement. And I keep my scapula over the bar for the start of the lift, which is nearly impossible if you won't lean forward a bit.. For what I've read, your form seems to feel better than the bodybuilders one.

nygmen
Senior Member
Senior Member
Posts: 1802
Joined: Mon Aug 25, 2008 7:51 pm
Location: Mass, USA

Re: Deadlift

Post by nygmen » Tue Oct 18, 2011 9:37 am

This thread is useless without videos of your form. No one can comment intelligently from words on a screen.


Also, he may have been trying to pay you a compliment by saying you were lifting heavy. It might just be his way of saying you are strong in his opinion. Don't always assume the worst in people, it is a bad habit.

teafan
Apprentice
Apprentice
Posts: 164
Joined: Fri Jul 23, 2010 9:13 am
Location: Durham, UK

Re: Deadlift

Post by teafan » Tue Oct 18, 2011 10:17 am

Sorry, just in case something has been lost in translation here - my question was:

What do you guys think about the guy keeping his spine perpindicular to the floor and not leaning forwards or pushing his butt out/tilting at the hips at all? Doesnt this sound like a barbell pole dance rather than a deadlift?

Paperclip
Associate Member
Associate Member
Posts: 335
Joined: Mon Jan 24, 2011 11:21 am
Location: Indonesia

Re: Deadlift

Post by Paperclip » Tue Oct 18, 2011 10:23 am

Sounds like a sumo deadlift, but I think he's not doing that?

nygmen
Senior Member
Senior Member
Posts: 1802
Joined: Mon Aug 25, 2008 7:51 pm
Location: Mass, USA

Re: Deadlift

Post by nygmen » Tue Oct 18, 2011 10:25 am

teafan wrote:Sorry, just in case something has been lost in translation here - my question was:

What do you guys think about the guy keeping his spine perpindicular to the floor and not leaning forwards or pushing his butt out/tilting at the hips at all? Doesnt this sound like a barbell pole dance rather than a deadlift?

sounds like his leverages force him to set up this way.

He his goal is a big pull, and he has one & isn't hurt, sounds like the perfect set up. If his goal is a developed PC and he has one isn't hurt, sounds like a good set up for him.

How wide were his feet?

teafan
Apprentice
Apprentice
Posts: 164
Joined: Fri Jul 23, 2010 9:13 am
Location: Durham, UK

Re: Deadlift

Post by teafan » Tue Oct 18, 2011 11:01 am

Shoulder width stance

Also, he said he never pulls from the floor - only from the rack

His face implied that I was going to snap my back because I leaned forwards and he was worried about my lower spine because my butt gets pushed out. Just to re-itterate, my "basic" form is no different to the link I posted.

I think i'm gonna file his concerns under the "different goals/different wavelength" file in my brain...

User avatar
Dub
Advanced Member
Advanced Member
Posts: 1142
Joined: Wed Sep 14, 2011 1:40 pm
Location: Lapland, Finland

Re: Deadlift

Post by Dub » Tue Oct 18, 2011 11:27 am

"Also, he said he never pulls from the floor - only from the rack"
Okay, from that point on I wouldn't take advice from him considering deadlifts from the floor. As it is quite the different thing. Depending of course about the starting height.

nygmen
Senior Member
Senior Member
Posts: 1802
Joined: Mon Aug 25, 2008 7:51 pm
Location: Mass, USA

Re: Deadlift

Post by nygmen » Tue Oct 18, 2011 12:10 pm

teafan wrote:Shoulder width stance

Also, he said he never pulls from the floor - only from the rack

His face implied that I was going to snap my back because I leaned forwards and he was worried about my lower spine because my butt gets pushed out. Just to re-itterate, my "basic" form is no different to the link I posted.

I think i'm gonna file his concerns under the "different goals/different wavelength" file in my brain...

Alright look, I'm going to be honest here.

99 out of 100 people think their form is spot on... Until they film themselves doing it. Then 98 of those people go "oh wow".

The closer you get to your true max, the worse your form is going to get. A max pull is probably going to be ugly the first couple of times you hit it.

Does this dude look like he lifts & has been lifting for years? If so, I would take what he says with a grain of salt, but don't dismiss it. If he has been in the gym for 5 or 10 years, he has seen a lot. And there is a possibility you think your back is good, but it looks like a capsized boat.

Do yourself a favor and film your pull. Even if you don't post it here or anywhere, do it for your own good. You might get the bar out in front of you and he just has a hard time explaining it.

Look the point of this thread, and my posts is your form, not his opinion. If you are asking, it means you are unsure. FILM YOUR NEXT HEAVY PULL.

nygmen
Senior Member
Senior Member
Posts: 1802
Joined: Mon Aug 25, 2008 7:51 pm
Location: Mass, USA

Re: Deadlift

Post by nygmen » Tue Oct 18, 2011 12:14 pm

Dub wrote:Okay, from that point on I wouldn't take advice from him considering deadlifts from the floor. As it is quite the different thing. Depending of course about the starting height.

The flaw in this logic is that not everyone needs to perform a lift in order to know what it should look like.

Given the fact we have no idea what OP's back looks like, there is no way to tell if dude's advice is good or not, irrelevant if he pulls from the floor or not.

User avatar
Christianiron.com
Rookie
Rookie
Posts: 33
Joined: Thu Mar 06, 2008 11:47 am
Location: Quakertown,Pa
Contact:

Re: Deadlift

Post by Christianiron.com » Tue Oct 18, 2011 12:17 pm

Video is great and will answer many questions. Simply listening to an onlooker could lead you either way. Very few big deadlifters ( if any) have a completely straight up & down back.. a little lean is std procedure. If you are in a bent over row position, you have gone too far

User avatar
Jungledoc
moderator
moderator
Posts: 7578
Joined: Thu Feb 07, 2008 7:11 am
Location: Kudjip, Papua New Guinea

Re: Deadlift

Post by Jungledoc » Tue Oct 18, 2011 4:49 pm

Yeah, for your benefit, video (either for your own review or to share with us) is a great idea.

But what he told you sounds pretty bogus to me. It should be a goal to keep your back as vertical as possible, allowing for all other aspects of good form on SQUAT, but NOT ON DL! Most people have to correct their butt being too low, get it higher and their back closer to horizontal. There is no value in getting the back vertical on DL. That just shifts the load to the quads, which is not what you are DLing for.

Hmmmm.... Today is DL day for me. Maybe I'd better video it.

Jason Nunn
Associate Member
Associate Member
Posts: 349
Joined: Sat Mar 14, 2009 7:35 pm

Re: Deadlift

Post by Jason Nunn » Tue Oct 18, 2011 6:53 pm

Here's a good video on it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vue17RjR ... ure=relmfu" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Also, like stated above, please video if you want a critique.

User avatar
KenDowns
Advanced Member
Advanced Member
Posts: 1415
Joined: Sat Nov 20, 2010 10:48 pm
Location: New York, USA
Contact:

Re: Deadlift

Post by KenDowns » Tue Oct 18, 2011 7:19 pm

nygmen wrote:Do yourself a favor and film your pull. Even if you don't post it here or anywhere, do it for your own good. You might get the bar out in front of you and he just has a hard time explaining it.
This is the best free advice you can get. My training partner and I started filming each other and then just handing the camera back and forth after the set. Once we'd made our notes we deleted it and filmed the next set. Originally I was going to post those, but we saw so many things wrong that it was a couple of weeks before I finally got rid of enough obvious problems to post something here and ask what I was missing.

teafan
Apprentice
Apprentice
Posts: 164
Joined: Fri Jul 23, 2010 9:13 am
Location: Durham, UK

Re: Deadlift

Post by teafan » Wed Oct 19, 2011 3:40 am

You're all absolutely spot on about the video advice - I'm gonna have to find a solution to this!

I dont think he was in any way concerned about the non-neutrality of my spine, just the fact I wasnt vertical and that my butt goes back. These pointers have been picked up by a few posters as bogus - to the point where I think we (me and said guy) were talking about two different lifts. It just threw me that this guy had such a radically different vision of deadlift form to anyone i've ever read/seen/researched and made me think.

The guy is a beast, been training for 20 years - but you wont ever see him doing an olympic lift or using the squat rack for it's major purpose. In fact, he doesnt really go "heavy" on anything. I respect him and all, I just don't trust his advice for a lot of things. There is this other guy who works there occasionally, monster on the OLifts... I'm gonna have a chat with him and see what he thinks.

Post Reply