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Re: Adding Volume, Goal to Get Stronger

Posted: Fri Oct 21, 2011 1:38 pm
by stuward
nygmen wrote:
Paperclip wrote:...
A change in body weight can drastically change your leverages and in turn change how much you can lift, whether it be through the same ROM, shorter or longer ROM.
Fat usually lies on top of muscle and doesn't add significantly to leverages or strength. I just want to throw that out, lest some overweight guys reading this think this is a license to get even fatter. Beyond a certain point, fat slows down your muscle gains. It's stronger muscle that makes you stronger, and bigger muscles that increases your leverage. At the other extreme of very lean, losing fat will make you weaker. There is a happy balance and it's not as much as you think. It's actually a normal, healthy level of fat that you need. You know if you need to gain or lose fat.

Re: Adding Volume, Goal to Get Stronger

Posted: Fri Oct 21, 2011 3:48 pm
by Jungledoc
Oscar, there are 2 ways to add volume. Or maybe it's better to say that volume can have 2 different roles in your program.

First, it can be the focus of your main lift. Say you've been doing 3x5 for your main lift, and you're stuck. Changing to 3 or 4 x12 can be the kick you need to start progressing again. It may be hard to compare the weights directly for a while, but when you go back to 3x5 after a few weeks, you may find that you are no longer stuck. I'm not talking here about lifting "light" like you would on your assistance lifts, or like you would on a light day in undulating periodization, but lifting near your 12-rep max. About a year ago I did some high volume lifting instead of 5/3/1 for a few weeks. I hated it (boring) but I stepped back into 5/3/1 without difficulty, and was a little stronger in some lifts.

The second role is as assistance. You can add more of the same movement, or a similar movement (two many possible reasons to choose one or the other to discuss here) either in the same workout or at another time in the week. That can help to build mass, can grease a groove, or just add a different stimulus to your routine for a time.

Re: Adding Volume, Goal to Get Stronger

Posted: Fri Oct 21, 2011 4:30 pm
by Oscar_Actuary

On the first type of volume, which is generally where I was going on this. I guess its hard to know if a few weeks of 3x12, while it worked, maybe 3 more weeks staying at 3x5 would have gotten you there as well, right?

When is different stimulus, driven by rep ranges, going to impact the ability to increase your 5 RM more than just doing 5 rep work; and more to the point, when does one know that that is what's needed.

We have to presume diet is removed as variable, as of course, that could completely disort comparisons otherwise.

I know some Power Lifter, some famous guy, did nothing but DL/Squat/Bench to improve his DL/Squat/Bench. Was he an exception? Do we add extra work because it's more fun than pounding away at the main lifts? I'm getting away from the main point and into where I wasn't going. Personally, I also want to do ither lifts for appearance, notwithstanding just variety and finding the combination that works best for my goals of the week. ;0)

Currently I'm a bit intrigued by coming up with a scheme to increase 5RM Squats 5-10 lbs per 2 weeks when Back Squatting 2/week and SplitSquatting 1/wk, along with Dealifting and Glute Thrusting. I'm not at all trying to speicalize in Power Lifting, so I want to get stronger and more muscle developement in all areas, along with fat loss. So if I get too focused on "best protocol for increasing Squat 5RM" it will no doubt run counter the at least one other goal.
I know goal setting is #1 first priority. And I have it. It's up to me to take responses to specific questions I have and balance them against those goals. Otherwise, I have to start every thread with a paragraph of my training age, current stats, and goals.

Re: Adding Volume, Goal to Get Stronger

Posted: Sat Oct 22, 2011 3:03 am
by Jungledoc
As to when to know when to change to a volume approach, or as to what might have been if you had stuck to the 3x5, obviously, it's just guess. When you feel stale and stalled, change something. Volume is just one of the many somethings you could change. That's a lot of what's fun about this--you have to try things out and see. You have to guess, to some extent. Not to turn this into something about me, but I feel that I'm starting to stall on press, but not on my other main lifts. I'll deload the press a little, and go on. Once I'm feeling that I'm stalling in most of my lifts, I'm planning to go to something different than 5/3/1 for a few weeks, then back again. What I'm planning to go to is beside the point, except that it will start with 12RM on all lifts. It will shift from extremely high volume to extremely low volume, then back to 5/3/1. We'll see.

Re: Adding Volume, Goal to Get Stronger

Posted: Sat Oct 22, 2011 5:49 am
by robertscott
add volume. Volume makes you bigger. Bigger equals more awesome.

It doesn't have to be anything crazy, just add like 5 sets of 10 for your favourite exercises once you've finished your heavy sets. Your recovery might take a slight dip for a little while but your work capacity will increase.

If you keep the rest periods short it's good for a bit of a cardio workout too.

Re: Adding Volume, Goal to Get Stronger

Posted: Sat Oct 22, 2011 3:27 pm
by Oscar_Actuary
My problem right now with that is I'm not eating as much to support recovery. I've had to make adjustments comensurate with lower calories. I'm be fine tuning more once Octobe is over. Including, perhaps adding some higher volume to support cardio and swoleness