For those doing 5/3/1 or maybe others similar situation

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Oscar_Actuary
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For those doing 5/3/1 or maybe others similar situation

Post by Oscar_Actuary » Mon Nov 07, 2011 2:48 pm

How dificult is it to be consistant when “leaving another rep in the tank” on your all out sets? Are you really tempted to beat or at least meet your last rep max at that weight? Do you find the technique to be a good way to find out about reading your body; in other words, would some of the increases come from the realization “wait, I actually do have a few left in the tank, I know this feeling, and it’s not the end yet”

I’m hesitant to do any lifting without predefining the reps. It’s a hang up of mine. I do better with rules.
If this idea in general is good, I may want to see how to incorporate it into my training plan.

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Re: For those doing 5/3/1 or maybe others similar situation

Post by KenDowns » Mon Nov 07, 2011 3:28 pm

Oscar_Actuary wrote:How difficult is it to be consistent when “leaving another rep in the tank” on your all out sets?
On bench and press it is much harder for me, but this is probably because I'm only on cycle 2 and my understanding of the effect of accessories is very undeveloped. On both of these my power curve seems to be changing, so when I think I have two I suddenly hit a dramatic slowdown near the top and it turns out I had one, and probably finished with none.

In case your wondering, this does not bother me in the least.

Oscar_Actuary wrote:Are you really tempted to beat or at least meet your last rep max at that weight?
I expect to always beat it. Again, this is partly because I'm only on cycle 2, so this attitude could be appropriate for up to 6 more months.
Oscar_Actuary wrote:Do you find the technique to be a good way to find out about reading your body; in other words, would some of the increases come from the realization “wait, I actually do have a few left in the tank, I know this feeling, and it’s not the end yet”
Yes. But it's almost always about speed. When they slow down, you're near the end.
Oscar_Actuary wrote:I’m hesitant to do any lifting without predefining the reps. It’s a hang up of mine. I do better with rules.
Well there are still rules. here's one: if you misjudge and the bar stops moving, drop it immediately.

You can't switch from predefined to all-out and not expect to misjudge a few times. If you never misjudge you're selling yourself short because you're not pushing the limit.
Vague goals beget vague methods

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Re: For those doing 5/3/1 or maybe others similar situation

Post by robertscott » Mon Nov 07, 2011 6:35 pm

I generally tend to not leave another rep in the tank. I know everyone says you shouldn't go to failure very often but meh, who wants to be sensible all the time.

I'm not saying I fail and miss the rep (although very occasionally I might need the spotter to take it), but my last rep is always a griiiiiiiiiinder. There's never a time when I could do another rep after my grinder.

I think maybe it just comes with knowing by how your reps feel whether or not you'd get another. The way I see it, if you think you could do one more, it makes no sense not to try. After a slow, grinding rep I know there's no chance I'd get another.

of course it all depends on your spotter situation...

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Re: For those doing 5/3/1 or maybe others similar situation

Post by Ausbris » Mon Nov 07, 2011 7:35 pm

Oscar_Actuary wrote:How dificult is it to be consistant when “leaving another rep in the tank” on your all out sets? Are you really tempted to beat or at least meet your last rep max at that weight?
I get really focused on beating my last rep max, but only when I'm having a good session. For me, its either do the minimum (i.e. if its 5+, I'll just do 5), or go balls-to-wall and smash my rep-record.
Oscar_Actuary wrote:I’m hesitant to do any lifting without predefining the reps. It’s a hang up of mine. I do better with rules.
If this idea in general is good, I may want to see how to incorporate it into my training plan.
Don't forget Wendler's rule is that you do at least the prescribed minimum - make sure you get some satisfaction out of doing that. That way, on your "off days", you are still realising gains (in the long-term sense).

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Re: For those doing 5/3/1 or maybe others similar situation

Post by KenDowns » Mon Nov 07, 2011 8:24 pm

robertscott wrote:The way I see it, if you think you could do one more, it makes no sense not to try. After a slow, grinding rep I know there's no chance I'd get another.
Well that's what I was trying to say. :smile:

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Re: For those doing 5/3/1 or maybe others similar situation

Post by Jungledoc » Mon Nov 07, 2011 10:03 pm

I over estimate or underestimate differently on different lifts. On bench I often feel I have one more rep, but hit the wall half-way up. I seldom have a grinder left, I feel like I have another rep, but then the bar just stops, and I can't do anything about it. Squat and DL just kick the want out of me. There are lots of times that I probably have another rep or 2 left, but just don't have the mental strength left to try.

I think (and Wendler says) that you can make progress on 5/3/1 just doing the prescribed reps. But there's something in the mentality of lifting that makes it hard to do that. If I just get 5 reps on 5s day, I feel like I've failed in some way, and that I'm near a stall. We're all sick.
Our greatest fear should not be of failure, but of succeeding at things in life that don't really matter.--Francis Chan

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Re: For those doing 5/3/1 or maybe others similar situation

Post by Jungledoc » Mon Nov 07, 2011 10:06 pm

KenDowns wrote:Well there are still rules. here's one: if you misjudge and the bar stops moving, drop it immediately.
Well.... That's fine on deadlift. Maybe on curls. Mayyybeee even on squats. But on bench and press, I'd advise against dropping the bar. It hurts, or so I understand. :roll:
Our greatest fear should not be of failure, but of succeeding at things in life that don't really matter.--Francis Chan

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Re: For those doing 5/3/1 or maybe others similar situation

Post by KenDowns » Mon Nov 07, 2011 11:08 pm

Jungledoc wrote:
KenDowns wrote:Well there are still rules. here's one: if you misjudge and the bar stops moving, drop it immediately.
Well.... That's fine on deadlift. Maybe on curls. Mayyybeee even on squats. But on bench and press, I'd advise against dropping the bar. It hurts, or so I understand. :roll:
The pins feel pain?

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Re: For those doing 5/3/1 or maybe others similar situation

Post by KenDowns » Mon Nov 07, 2011 11:35 pm

Let me clarify, by "drop the bar" I don't mean let go, I mean don't push a failed rep. On bench you shouldn't have more weight in your hands than you can lower back down to your chest and hold safely. And you should have pins. On Press same goes, you should not have more in your hands than you can drop back to your shoulders and rack.

For deads I can lock out anything I can get off the floor, so failed reps means it doesn't move, and this does not apply.

For squats I'm afraid to dump the bar, so I don't go down unless I'm 100% sure I'll get back up, even with spotters.

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Re: For those doing 5/3/1 or maybe others similar situation

Post by Proper Knob » Tue Nov 08, 2011 5:58 am

robertscott wrote:I generally tend to not leave another rep in the tank. I know everyone says you shouldn't go to failure very often but meh, who wants to be sensible all the time.
Says the man with a broken back and now a dodgy shoulder. :wink:

I'm not saying correlation = causation. But surely that's something to ponder over.
What if the Hokey Cokey really IS what it's all about?

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Re: For those doing 5/3/1 or maybe others similar situation

Post by teafan » Tue Nov 08, 2011 6:01 am

While on the subject of reps/531 - on the deload week: do you go nuts on the last set or what?

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Re: For those doing 5/3/1 or maybe others similar situation

Post by Proper Knob » Tue Nov 08, 2011 6:12 am

teafan wrote:While on the subject of reps/531 - on the deload week: do you go nuts on the last set or what?
No. It's a deload. The point is to take it easy.
What if the Hokey Cokey really IS what it's all about?

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Re: For those doing 5/3/1 or maybe others similar situation

Post by robertscott » Tue Nov 08, 2011 11:10 am

Proper Knob wrote:
robertscott wrote:I generally tend to not leave another rep in the tank. I know everyone says you shouldn't go to failure very often but meh, who wants to be sensible all the time.
Says the man with a broken back and now a dodgy shoulder. :wink:

I'm not saying correlation = causation. But surely that's something to ponder over.
ha! You got me there. Although I will say that that's probably a lot more to do with posture than my 1 set of benching to failure every week...

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Re: For those doing 5/3/1 or maybe others similar situation

Post by Rik-Blades » Tue Nov 08, 2011 11:58 am

Am I missing something? (I usually do)

You cant do the minimum reps on 531 AND progress. 5+ reps doesn't mean you can do just 5 and progress, because your not progressing.

Lets say my 1RM is 100kg whatever. 90% of 100kg = 90kg. Now the last set of 5+ is at 85% of 90kg (say 77.5kg). This means if I do 10 reps at this weight, I progress (77.5 x 10 x 0.0333 + 77.5 = 103.3 1RM)

However, if I do only 5....77.5 x 5 x 0.333 + 77.5 = 90.4 1RM thats a DECREASE of almost 10kg

So for me, its about getting the minimum reps to progress my 1RM at a weight, I'm never trying to beat a rep count. I'll stop if I have 3 more reps in me somedays, as long as I progressed, it doesnt matter.

Now someone tell me I got the whole 531 incorrect....... :error:
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Re: For those doing 5/3/1 or maybe others similar situation

Post by Proper Knob » Tue Nov 08, 2011 12:16 pm

Rik-Blades wrote:Am I missing something? Now someone tell me I got the whole 531 incorrect....... :error:
The next cycle you add weight to your training max. For example, if your training max that you work out your percentages from is 100kg you get for the final sets each week -

5 x 85kgs+
3 x 90kgs+
1 x 95kgs+

Next cycle you training max will increase to either 102.5kgs or 105kgs. I'll pick the latter, so you new cycle will be

90 x 5+
95 x 3+
100 x 1+

And then the next cycle the max will increase again to 110kgs etc etc. So even though your only getting the minimum reps the weight is increasing.
What if the Hokey Cokey really IS what it's all about?

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