A hypothetical program

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Paperclip
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A hypothetical program

Post by Paperclip » Sun Dec 04, 2011 4:24 am

I've been thinking about creating a program that's based on AM/PM workouts (twice a day) to maximize the body response/adaptation to exercise (whatever that means). Each workout should last 45 minutes or preferably less.

MONDAY:
AM: Power Snatch: bar/2x5/4/3/2/5x1
PM: Back Squat: work up to a (daily) max then 2x5

TUESDAY:
AM: (kipping) Muscle Up, (weighted) Inverted Row
PM: Dumbbell Press 12/10/8/6, Lateral Raise: 12/10/8/6, Rear Lateral Raise: 12/10/8/6

WEDNESDAY:
AM: Sprint: Jog 1200m then Sprint 8x50m (timed)
PM: Box Jump to 5x1 (max)

THURSDAY:
AM: (weighted) Clapping Push Up
PM: Deadlift: 3x5

FRIDAY:
AM: Power Clean + Push Press: bar/2x5/4/3/2/5x1
PM: Front Squat: work up to a (daily) max then 2x5

SATURDAY:
AM: Hill Sprint or Stair Running: 30 minutes
PM: OFF

SUNDAY:
OFF :cheers:

What do you think?

No barbell bench press or barbell shoulder press included because their potential to mess with the shoulders (though there's push press). Ideally you use bumper plates so there's no need to lower the weight.

BTW I'm not going to do it because I do olympic weightlifting.


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Re: A hypothetical program

Post by stuward » Sun Dec 04, 2011 8:50 am

What's your target audience and what effect are you trying to achieve by breaking it up this way?
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Re: A hypothetical program

Post by Paperclip » Sun Dec 04, 2011 9:03 am

stuward wrote:What's your target audience and what effect are you trying to achieve by breaking it up this way?
It's a general fitness program with a bias to power development.

Ideally it should be done with a little nap in between the AM/PM workouts to maximize your performance in each workout and probably the daily testosterone/cortisol ratio (the last one is in broscience territory).

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Re: A hypothetical program

Post by stuward » Sun Dec 04, 2011 9:16 am

I'm not sure that 2 sessions a day is appropriate for strength recovery. Low intensity, grease the groove type training is common in weightlifting but once a day training is more appropriate in strength training for good reason. Much of the effectiveness in your program would relate to how you structure each workout. Each workout will affect the workout after and be affected by the workout before. With this highly frequent training, that relationship is extended to multiple workouts. You need to define the intensity and goals of each workout and how it related to recovery from, or preparation for, the adjacent workouts. I think you have subconsciously done that but I don't think you've articulated it.
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Re: A hypothetical program

Post by Paperclip » Sun Dec 04, 2011 9:28 am

Well, actually it was inspired by the Bulgarian weightlifting program and by one program "this person that I know" made.

As for the relation of recovery between each workout, I wrote the sets/reps range so people (and me) can judge if it's doable or not. Another reason for the "split" is because it's designed to be fairly intense (but short) so I think the recovery would be better that way. I do think though, that the intensity could be lowered somewhat by alternating low and high intensity workout. But I think it's fairly doable already and actually I want to try it out if I have the chance (I could use some running!).


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Re: A hypothetical program

Post by stuward » Sun Dec 04, 2011 9:48 am

I think the 45 minutes thing is the main thing I have a issue with. If your power workouts consist of say, an extended low intensity mobility based warmup including some weightlifting drills and the workout itself was about 15-20 minutes of power training, this would achieve your aim without undo affect on recovery. Likewise the actual workout part of the strength session could be condensed to 20-30 minutes of actual workout. The total sessions could fill 45 minutes but 45 minutes, balls to the wall, twice a day would probably not work out.

It's an interesting workout. I wouldn't want to go to the gym twice a day but I could see one a day in the gym and a body weight/sprint workout to be achievable by more people. Of course if you have bumper plates at home this would make a difference.
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Re: A hypothetical program

Post by Paperclip » Sun Dec 04, 2011 9:55 am

The "45 minutes" is just a rough estimation based on warming up + the main exercise itself, and actually the exercises are made so that each workout lasts no more than 45 mins, preferably less.

Yeah, you're right that most people probably wouldn't bother to go to the gym twice a day.

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Re: A hypothetical program

Post by Oscar_Actuary » Sun Dec 04, 2011 2:36 pm

above my pay grade but I like the ideas.
I've thought about something like this when I have a busy schedule, where I'd like to do the same overall volume but have small pockets of time before and after work.
Problem though is two showers a day. Takes time, costs money.

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Re: A hypothetical program

Post by Kenny Croxdale » Tue Dec 06, 2011 8:26 am

Paperclip wrote:I've been thinking about creating a program that's based on AM/PM workouts (twice a day) to maximize the body response/adaptation to exercise (whatever that means). Each workout should last 45 minutes or preferably less.
Bulgarian Method

As you noted, the Bulgarians proved this to be an effective method.

Also, many American football pre-seaon program revolve around "Two A Day." I am sure other sports do, as well.

Personal Persective

I have used the "Two A Day" on and off over the years.

Originally, I used it to train my squat and deadlift.

My feeling was that training the squat once a week (Monday) and then my deadlift (Thursday) did not allow my lower body (especially lower back) enough recovery time.

So, I implemented squats and deadlift on the same day.

AM: Squats
PM: Deadlifts

Actually, that worked well. It allowed me 6 days of recovery time for my lower body (primarily lower back).

The Down Side

I felt a little tapped out the next day (Tuesday). Especially, if it was the last week of my cycles where I pushed my squat and deadlift to the limit.

"Freaking Your Own Mind Out"

Albert Beckles (bodybuilding ledgend) once stated that training heavy too much not only burns out your body but it burn out your mind.

That is one of the problems with "Two A Day". Especially, when you have to work for a living.

It mentally and emotionally wears on you.

Working

If you don't have to work or your a professional athlete, that allows you some down time for mental recover.

If you have a full time job and family, it really hard.

Stu's Suggestion

The most effective "Two A Day" program that I found was based what Stu posted.

I make my AM workout the hard one. A about a 45-60 minute workout.

My PM workout a moderate one, about 20 minutes. I worked at a speciality fitness store. So, I was able to get my 20 minutes in there...go home and have a normal life.

My Recommnendations

You learn from doing, so give it a try. However, ease into it.

Kenny Croxdale
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Re: A hypothetical program

Post by Paperclip » Wed Dec 07, 2011 1:38 am

Kenny Croxdale wrote: "Freaking Your Own Mind Out"

Albert Beckles (bodybuilding ledgend) once stated that training heavy too much not only burns out your body but it burn out your mind.

That is one of the problems with "Two A Day". Especially, when you have to work for a living.

It mentally and emotionally wears on you.

Working

If you don't have to work or your a professional athlete, that allows you some down time for mental recover.

If you have a full time job and family, it really hard.
But Kenny, the AM/PM workouts in my program are actually one day workouts, each split into two.

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Re: A hypothetical program

Post by Oscar_Actuary » Wed Dec 07, 2011 2:44 am

Paperclip wrote:But Kenny, the AM/PM workouts in my program are actually one day workouts, each split into two.
But you have to shower twice, warm up, get in the "zone" etc.

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Re: A hypothetical program

Post by Paperclip » Wed Dec 07, 2011 5:31 am

Oscar_Actuary wrote:
But you have to shower twice, warm up, get in the "zone" etc.
Yeah, true. Probably this is a big consideration for some people :grin:

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Re: A hypothetical program

Post by Kenny Croxdale » Wed Dec 07, 2011 10:01 am

Paperclip wrote:
But Kenny, the AM/PM workouts in my program are actually one day workouts, each split into two.
That what a "Two A Day" is...two training sessions in one day.

Kenny
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Re: A hypothetical program

Post by Paperclip » Wed Dec 07, 2011 11:06 am

Kenny Croxdale wrote:
Paperclip wrote:
But Kenny, the AM/PM workouts in my program are actually one day workouts, each split into two.
That what a "Two A Day" is...two training sessions in one day.

Kenny
What I'm trying to say is, from your earlier post, it seems that you suggested that training in the AM/PM can be hard for people, while my original intention is quite the opposite. I split the workouts to AM/PM because I hope that it would be easier to the body among a number of reasons. Do you think that it would have the opposite effect?

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Re: A hypothetical program

Post by TimD » Wed Dec 07, 2011 11:23 am

Two or even more adays are really not that uncommon for OL training squads. The key is to limit the volume and intensities within sessions. The US squad goes up to 4-5 sessions/day. Remeber though, most of the programs I am describing are for sponsored athletes, not doing a "regular" life, which includes jobs. I'm sure two a days wouldn't hurt as long as you control very carefully your time management, oplus the volumes and intensities.


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