Foundations of Shoulder Health

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Oscar_Actuary
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Re: Foundations of Shoulder Health

Post by Oscar_Actuary » Sun Jan 29, 2012 2:34 am

KenDowns wrote:So this is what I seem to be getting:

Press-Powerlifter Pull-Bodybuilder
So I learned something new, cool. This means that bench day might look like:

Bench 5/3/1
Row 5/3/1
Row Volume

This means I still want to get stronger and move more weight, but instead of another bench variation i'd be doing volume on the pulling exercise for that day.
Of course, in a recent thread I "confirmed" we should press with volume too. So you got that
More importainly, I'm learning how to assess my program as I consider what I read hear. Before, I would take what I read and let that drive my decisions.

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Re: Foundations of Shoulder Health

Post by KenDowns » Sun Jan 29, 2012 9:55 pm

robertscott wrote:Ken mate, I wish you wouldn't worry so much about the whole, beginner/intermediate thing.
You've convinced me. All I really know now is I can lift enough to hurt myself
:grin:

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Re: Foundations of Shoulder Health

Post by Jungledoc » Sun Jan 29, 2012 10:03 pm

JasonJones wrote:One can cheat the range of motion on almost any upper or mid back exercise by adding in unnecessary movements through the erectors or legs (and simultaneously fool oneself into believing they have a strong pull!)
So true! It's fun to watch guys in the gym doing hammer curls with lots of body english. I've often wondered how much I could curl given unlimited body english, but I never have time, or I'm embarrassed to be seen "lifting" like that!
Our greatest fear should not be of failure, but of succeeding at things in life that don't really matter.--Francis Chan

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Re: Foundations of Shoulder Health

Post by KenDowns » Sun Jan 29, 2012 10:05 pm

The shoulder is not really any better or worse than it was, even with ice and ibuprofen. Good days, bad days, never hurts a lot, just "not quite right."

Tried a lot of new motions today and yesterday. Lots of DOMS in places where I didn't know I had places.

The external rotations I tried with bands and dumbbells. The bands felt wonderful, like discovering a new favorite exercise. Did like five sets they felt so good.

Tried Press at deload weights and it was very nice, felt like going home to an old friend.

Will try bench at deload weights tuesday. Can go pretty high before I feel any discomfort, I'll let that be the guide.

For bench and press I will likely reduce weights by 20# for cycle 7 and go very modest on the all-out sets and continue to monitor.
Vague goals beget vague methods

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Re: Foundations of Shoulder Health

Post by KenDowns » Sun Jan 29, 2012 10:12 pm

Jungledoc wrote:
JasonJones wrote:One can cheat the range of motion on almost any upper or mid back exercise by adding in unnecessary movements through the erectors or legs (and simultaneously fool oneself into believing they have a strong pull!)
So true! It's fun to watch guys in the gym doing hammer curls with lots of body english. I've often wondered how much I could curl given unlimited body english, but I never have time, or I'm embarrassed to be seen "lifting" like that!
Jason: um, yeah. I noticed this immediately on face pulls, kept fiddling with which band would give me resistance enough without needing to cheat. It was a bit tough.

Doc: maybe we should have a thread on staying tight. All that body English is impossible if your back is neutral and tight, etc.
Vague goals beget vague methods

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Re: Foundations of Shoulder Health

Post by robertscott » Mon Jan 30, 2012 4:17 pm

KenDowns wrote:
robertscott wrote:Ken mate, I wish you wouldn't worry so much about the whole, beginner/intermediate thing.
You've convinced me. All I really know now is I can lift enough to hurt myself
:grin:
my work here is done, now I can fly away on my umbrella

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Re: Foundations of Shoulder Health

Post by KenDowns » Fri Feb 03, 2012 10:12 pm

Just thought I'd let everybody know my shoulder actually feels better. I've done more volume pulling this week than ever, probably more than in the past 18 months combined lol. It honestly actually feels better. I'm beginning to get hopeful! It still does not feel the same as the right shoulder, but any progress is good progress.

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Re: Foundations of Shoulder Health

Post by teafan » Mon Feb 06, 2012 6:04 am

Good news! Keep us updated...

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Re: Foundations of Shoulder Health

Post by KenDowns » Mon Feb 06, 2012 8:54 am

On Saturday and Sunday I did a *lot* of different exercises, including doing deads and squats on same day, which I have not done in a long time.

Saturday was press day, but also included lateral raises, front raises, face-pulls, and pull-ups. Shoulder was definitely sore on left side more than right.

Saturday: http://exrx.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=3 ... &start=102" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Sunday was deadlift day, and I also did squats, skull crushers, curls, and front lateral raises. After that workout all soreness in the shoulder completely disappeared and it feels normal today.

Sunday: http://exrx.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=3 ... &start=103" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I'm kind of scratching my head over what exercises cause soreness or cause soreness to completely disappear. :scratch:

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Re: Foundations of Shoulder Health

Post by KenDowns » Wed Feb 08, 2012 6:29 pm

UPDATE: went to the powerlifting gym down the street and made an appt for Saturday.

Too much to tell. But basically I heard in my 20 minute visit about everything I've heard here, back work, external rotations, dumbbells, and lots more.

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Re: Foundations of Shoulder Health

Post by commodiusvicus » Wed Feb 08, 2012 11:32 pm

With respect to determining which exercises provoke or ameliorate soreness: if you really want to find out, you could always do a process of elimination. You can either start by doing just one exercise then adding one more each time until you find one that gives you trouble, or you can just keep track of what exercises you did the day before when you wake up in pain, and gradually narrow it down that way.

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Re: Foundations of Shoulder Health

Post by KenDowns » Thu Feb 09, 2012 11:06 am

I did a complete run of dumbbell and pulley exercises last night. There were a few black-and-white results, and many gray areas. Did these with very light weights.

Dumbbell press, pronated grip, seated, 25# dumbbells. About 2 inches in my left shoulder locked up, gave a sensation of "you really don't want to do this" and then there was a sudden loss of strength. For better or worse I completed the rep and did no more. Pretty conclusive I'd say.

Dumbbell flyes, 10# dumbbells. Did 3 or 4 reps and experienced a gradually worsening pain in the left inner bicep near the elbow. Stopped.

On the other hand, the moves that experienced no pain whatsoever were triceps moves and rear delts, had zero trouble with ez-curl bar skull crushers, straight arm pulldowns, face-pulls and volume rows.

The gray areas were dumbbell bench press (neutral and pronated), neutral grip dumbbell seated press, lateral raises and front raises, external rotations. These might have a very slight discomfort on the left side, something I wouldn't worry about except for the larger context.

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Re: Foundations of Shoulder Health

Post by robertscott » Thu Feb 09, 2012 11:09 am

drop all pressing for a couple of weeks, rows rows rows rows rows.

Also, do you know how to power snatch? That's good for shoulder health too.

Don't let it get you down though Ken, we've all had a shoulder problem at some point, you just have to learn how to manage it.

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Re: Foundations of Shoulder Health

Post by Oscar_Actuary » Thu Feb 09, 2012 1:22 pm

commodiusvicus wrote:ameliorate
please dont' make me use websters while reading exrx

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Re: Foundations of Shoulder Health

Post by KenDowns » Thu Feb 09, 2012 1:22 pm

robertscott wrote:drop all pressing for a couple of weeks, rows rows rows rows rows.
The depressing part is that I did, for 3 weeks. When I went back: wham!

However, only for the past 2 weeks have i gotten serious about face pulls, external rotations, and volume rowing, and as I reported a few posts up, everything felt wonderfully better after only a few days of that. If I keep it up seriously for several weeks and stop trying to "rehab" the pressing, who knows what good things can happen?

Going further, if and when I can begin rehab workouts in pressing, it will be with dumbbells and neutral grip to start, so I am actually thinking happy thoughts about it.
robertscott wrote:Also, do you know how to power snatch? That's good for shoulder health too.
No, but the gym has an olympic platform. The trainer I will be with on Saturday does not do or teach Olympic lifts, but there is a guy who comes in on Saturdays and does them.

robertscott wrote:Don't let it get you down though Ken, we've all had a shoulder problem at some point, you just have to learn how to manage it.
I appreciate the encouragement.

Most encouraging of all is that the information I got at the gym is exactly what I was told here, its all about those rowing motions he told me, and try dumbbells to get a clear notion of how your left and right sides compare.

Now, the odd thing is that the trainer they assigned to me cannot himself do bench anymore because of his messed up shoulder. Not sure that's really a good thing.... :scratch:
Vague goals beget vague methods

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