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Re: Foundations of Shoulder Health

Posted: Thu Feb 09, 2012 1:27 pm
by Oscar_Actuary
I recall your bench was pretty good when starting SL (which is also deficient in pulling)
I imagine you fall in the typical category of having pushed a lot more than pull in early years.


Me, I avoided all heavy lifting until 2010

Re: Foundations of Shoulder Health

Posted: Thu Feb 09, 2012 2:13 pm
by stuward
KenDowns wrote:...Now, the odd thing is that the trainer they assigned to me cannot himself do bench anymore because of his messed up shoulder. Not sure that's really a good thing.... :scratch:
I think it's a very good thing. He knows what not to do.

Re: Foundations of Shoulder Health

Posted: Thu Feb 09, 2012 2:44 pm
by JasonJones
KenDowns wrote:Now, the odd thing is that the trainer they assigned to me cannot himself do bench anymore because of his messed up shoulder. Not sure that's really a good thing.... :scratch:
I can't bench, and I've coached two female powerlifting athletes to national record benches.

Re: Foundations of Shoulder Health

Posted: Thu Feb 09, 2012 8:49 pm
by KenDowns
New information.

I asked My Wife, MD (tm) to use a spare caster to do some soft tissue work on my back. On the left side, right when she hit what she called the "subscapular", my pinky and ring fingers on my left side went numb. We tried it a bit and it was like a button, if she hit it my fingers went numb. She says that's a pinched nerve, and recommended an orthopedist.

The saga continues...

Re: Foundations of Shoulder Health

Posted: Thu Feb 09, 2012 9:55 pm
by Jungledoc
Oscar_Actuary wrote:
commodiusvicus wrote:ameliorate
please dont' make me use websters while reading exrx
Perhaps we can ponder methods for ameliorating your necience.

Re: Foundations of Shoulder Health

Posted: Thu Feb 09, 2012 10:06 pm
by Jungledoc
KenDowns wrote:New information.

I asked My Wife, MD (tm) to use a spare caster to do some soft tissue work on my back. On the left side, right when she hit what she called the "subscapular", my pinky and ring fingers on my left side went numb. We tried it a bit and it was like a button, if she hit it my fingers went numb. She says that's a pinched nerve, and recommended an orthopedist.

The saga continues...
Oooo, now that's interesting. I suggest that this isn't really a pinched nerve (I'd be hard pressed to suggest anatomy to support that idea) but an example of a true trigger point. The term "trigger point" has been used to mean any spot in a muscle that is tender and "triggers" a reaction in the subject, but originally it implied a point which when stimulated caused pain or other symptoms in a predictable location remote, and without obvious neural connection with the point that was being stimulated. There are manuals that list common patterns for these patterns. Most of the "points" in the manual are, in my experience, places that are commonly tender, but I haven't often found the predicted patterns of referred pain or symptoms. Various kinds of treatments are touted as capable of relieving these--injections of various fluids, "accupressure", and the ever-fascinating "spray and stretch" in which the muscle (where the TP is located) is stretched while the surface of the skin overlaying the TP is sprayed with a refrigerant in a specific prescribed sweeping pattern. I used to be a bit of a believer in all of that, but my passion has waned considerably in recent years. But, hmm, interesting.

Was you wife saying "subscapularis"? That's the name of a muscle.

Re: Foundations of Shoulder Health

Posted: Thu Feb 09, 2012 11:30 pm
by Oscar_Actuary
necience- no dictionary results
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/necience" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Re: Foundations of Shoulder Health

Posted: Fri Feb 10, 2012 3:10 am
by Ironman
Oscar_Actuary wrote:necience- no dictionary results
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/necience" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
I think Jungledoc might have something jammed in his "S" key. LOL

Re: Foundations of Shoulder Health

Posted: Fri Feb 10, 2012 3:12 am
by Jungledoc
Oscar_Actuary wrote:necience- no dictionary results
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/necience" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Try this one instead:
http://www.thefreedictionary.com/cacography

In my own defense, that was a typing, not a spelling error! Really.

Re: Foundations of Shoulder Health

Posted: Fri Feb 10, 2012 3:19 am
by Ironman
Cacography is quite an issue for me. A lot of it is due to an intention tremor which is genetic though. I think I have NVLD too. However I was evaluated before they had a name for it.

Re: Foundations of Shoulder Health

Posted: Fri Feb 10, 2012 3:30 am
by Ironman
KenDowns wrote:New information.

I asked My Wife, MD (tm) to use a spare caster to do some soft tissue work on my back. On the left side, right when she hit what she called the "subscapular", my pinky and ring fingers on my left side went numb. We tried it a bit and it was like a button, if she hit it my fingers went numb. She says that's a pinched nerve, and recommended an orthopedist.

The saga continues...
There is a bundle of nerves back there that branch out to various places. The place she is pressing is what leads to the ulnar nerve in your arm, which controls and provides feeling to part of the palm, the pinky and half the ring finger. It will probably heal on it's own. I had the same problem from repetitive use related to moving a mouse. I switched to a track ball to make it stop. I had the problem in the back of the shoulder, the elbow and the wrist on the right side.

Oscar, you might say my "ergonomics" really sucked.

Re: Foundations of Shoulder Health

Posted: Fri Feb 10, 2012 11:19 am
by KenDowns
I'm at lunch break so can only make a quick post, but here is another update.

Mornings are usually the worst, after I've rolled around on my shoulder through the night. Yesterday was the first time I did real soft-tissue work on my back (using a caster of all things), and this morning the normal shoulder pain was not there. Also, I did take ibuprofen 3 times yesterday, at 6 hour intervals, so that might play into that as well in terms of generally reducing inflammation.

I'll try to do a comprehensive update this evening.

Re: Foundations of Shoulder Health

Posted: Fri Feb 10, 2012 3:59 pm
by Dub
Image
Image

Hey I'm not sure if you need this or anything, but here are two pretty good pics showing the main rotatory cuff muscles. All of them relate and affect to the movement of the humerus.

They are a bit of a mess, but here's the chart:

Upper picture (anterior picture, from the front):
Red 123: Subscapularis
Blue 9/10/11: Teres Major
Yellow: Latissmus Dorsi

Lower picture (posterior, from the backside):
Yellow 5/7: Infraspinatus
Blue 2/3: Supraspinatus
Green 9/10: Teres Minor
Red: Deltoideus, all three parts.

The missing muscles that move the humerus: Biceps, Triceps, Pecs and Coracobrachialis.

Re: Foundations of Shoulder Health

Posted: Fri Feb 10, 2012 6:52 pm
by Jungledoc
Cool diagrams. Using lines makes it simpler to see the relationships that when they try to illustrate the whole muscle. Also shows how complicated the shoulder really is.

Re: Foundations of Shoulder Health

Posted: Fri Feb 10, 2012 7:33 pm
by JasonJones
Jungledoc wrote:Cool diagrams. Using lines makes it simpler to see the relationships that when they try to illustrate the whole muscle. Also shows how complicated the shoulder really is.
Speaking of how complicated the shoulder is, how often do you actually see dysfunction of the subscapularis, Jungledoc? I would think that you'd be more likely to find an anteriorly fixed humerus or a winged scapula -- or some other abnormal glenohumeral/scapulothoracic movement or function -- or am I barking up the wrong tree?