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Re: what set range for what rep range?

Posted: Thu Feb 23, 2012 9:28 pm
by Oscar_Actuary
stuward wrote:I've only been doing it for four weeks, not long enough to see any progress.
Oh gosh, if it takes four weeks to see progress, I must not be making any :con:
stuward wrote:and I'll probably injure myself.
because the high intnesity, or a you being facetious?

Re: what set range for what rep range?

Posted: Fri Feb 24, 2012 5:35 am
by stuward
Oscar_Actuary wrote:... or a you being facetious?
I hope I'm being facetious. Conventional wisdom says that unless you wait until the super-compensation point, you over-train and risk injury.

Re: what set range for what rep range?

Posted: Fri Feb 24, 2012 8:23 am
by Jebus
http://www.averagebroz.com/ABG/Q_%26_A/ ... ystem.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

According to John Broz and Ivan Abadjiev, you would actually injure yourself by not going heavy every day.

Re: what set range for what rep range?

Posted: Fri Feb 24, 2012 9:47 am
by stuward
I think this thread is thouroughly hijacked now. I have read that article before and I believe Broz is right. In my signature I mention the 3 stages of truth. This seems to me to be just short of the first stage. Broz's ideas seem radical to us but they seem to have been used for years in the Eastern Bloc countries. My concern, is that like most new ideas, the support base for those ideas is small and usually circuituous. Every time you get an opinion that seems to back up a new idea, you can trace it back to the same guy. In this case, it's getting attention from a few writers, but it's not widespread. On the other hand, I have a feeling that there are a lot of guys out there that just do this without talking about it. Guys that don't care about the theory, they just do what works. I wish I knew.

Re: what set range for what rep range?

Posted: Fri Feb 24, 2012 4:18 pm
by Jungledoc
Dub wrote:I think you should do high/very high intensity in only one or two lifts per workout. Using 1 to 3 reps in all the exercises will just burn you out. And your nervous system will not thank you yet again.
I'd actually say that you should be doing high intensity on only one or two lifts per week, not per workout. If 2, it should be 1 lower, 1 upper.

For something like the squat every day, my understanding is that volume is well-controlled, and that other lifting through the week is scaled back on intensity.

But the question you are raising is confusing to many. 5x5, 3x8, 8x3, 4x6, 6x4, 12x2, 2x12 all give you 24 or 25 reps, but they obviously won't all affect you the same way. I'm pretty sure that you can move a lot more weight 12 sets of 2 than you could on 2 sets of 12! Yet, the work load is the same. If you load close to your max for 12 sets of 2, you will have a much harder time recovering that if you do 2 sets of near your 12-rep max.

So you have to decide what your goal is for a particular lift, as well as your over-all goals in lifting. I have come to believe that when training for strength, you can make better progress if you focus on one lift at a time, rather than trying to get all lifts up at once. So you might, for example, decide that squat is where you want to put most of your effort for the next 6 months or a year. You keep the other lifts in your template, but you don't bust you guts on them week after week.

Then on the priority exercise you can work with higher work loads because you won't add as much fatigue through the rest of the week. It's like you have a budget of fatigue to spend. You can spend it a little at a time on all the lifts, or you can spend a lot of it on a priority lift, and less on the rest. Think of "overtraining" (and people can't really agree what, if anything that is) going over your budget for too long. Diet, rest and many other factors determine you "income", and determine how much fatigue you can recover from

Most people feel that they have to pick a rep-set combination and stick with it week after week, but you don't. When people do that, the only thing they change from week to week is the amount of weight on the bar. If you're not limited by a predetermined rep-set scheme, you can progress in many ways; add a rep to a set, or add weight to a set, or add an additional set. Like someone said earlier in this thread, if you do prescribed sets and feel you still have some gas in the tank, why not do another set? Even if it's not as many reps as your other sets, it's progress.

Re: what set range for what rep range?

Posted: Fri Feb 24, 2012 5:19 pm
by Oscar_Actuary
doc,

On the focus on one lift theory, imso, it's very training age if not biological age dependent. Some can progress on many lifts, but once you start platueing, and got to get creative, perhaps, you are right on. Perhaps that is implied and Im being pendantic. (SP?)

Re: what set range for what rep range?

Posted: Sat Feb 25, 2012 9:36 am
by Jungledoc
Oscar_Actuary wrote:doc,

On the focus on one lift theory, imso, it's very training age if not biological age dependent. Some can progress on many lifts, but once you start platueing, and got to get creative, perhaps, you are right on. Perhaps that is implied and Im being pendantic. (SP?)
Yeah, you're right. At least a person has to be to the point where they have found their strength on all the lifts, and have enough experience with them to decide to focus on strength, and to have enough experience with the lifts to do them well.

At least you're not being punctilious.

Re: what set range for what rep range?

Posted: Mon Feb 27, 2012 12:42 am
by Immortal2
my thread got stolen :(..... anyway not that it matters now but just wanna say, 2 rep workouts.... made me more sore than ive ever been ... did a 5X5 workout today.. really really felt great. Going to alternate every other week with rep ranges if thats a good thing to do.

Re: what set range for what rep range?

Posted: Mon Feb 27, 2012 12:49 am
by Oscar_Actuary
I think mixing up rep ranges is one thing that can spur you past sticking points and keep it interesting.
The downside is maintaining proper progression, whatever that might be, across two totally different protocols. For me, I use the higher volume work to support the lower, so, I budget accordingly.

Re: what set range for what rep range?

Posted: Mon Feb 27, 2012 9:17 am
by Jungledoc
Immortal2 wrote:my thread got stolen :(..... anyway not that it matters now but just wanna say, 2 rep workouts.... made me more sore than ive ever been ... did a 5X5 workout today.. really really felt great. Going to alternate every other week with rep ranges if thats a good thing to do.
By "2 rep workouts" do you mean several sets of 2?

Re: what set range for what rep range?

Posted: Mon Feb 27, 2012 9:34 am
by stuward
Immortal2 wrote:... Going to alternate every other week with rep ranges if thats a good thing to do.
Yes alternating is a good thing to do. Higher reps are also goo to add in from time to time. You should consider the 5-3-1 program. It has that variation built into it along with a programmed deload week.

Re: what set range for what rep range?

Posted: Mon Feb 27, 2012 10:43 am
by Immortal2
Yes doc, i did Several sets of two. Would I need a deload week if Im just starting? How many weeks until i reach the deload week? can I skip the first deload week or I have to follow it strictly?

Re: what set range for what rep range?

Posted: Mon Feb 27, 2012 11:48 am
by Oscar_Actuary
fwiw, I've only not squatted/deadlifted heavy 2x week for 4 weeks in a row (ankle issue) and later deloaded 30 lbs after losing 20 lbs too quickly, over year of barbell training. And I was/am in bad shape. The need to deload is very personal and programming specific, I would imagine.

Re: what set range for what rep range?

Posted: Mon Feb 27, 2012 11:49 am
by stuward
It's a good idea to deload by cutting the volume and/or intensity a bit every few weeks. Everyone is different here but in general, it's better to do it before your body says to stop.

What do you mean, you're just starting? You've been posting here on and off for a long time so you're not a beginner. Do you just mean starting the low reps? By the way, beginners deload too, it's called a weekend.

Re: what set range for what rep range?

Posted: Tue Feb 28, 2012 8:11 am
by Jungledoc
You can deload a full week, you can deload just a workout or even just one lift. Yes, I agree with Stu, everyone is different, and with Oscar that's it's a personal thing. Work it out for yourself. If you feel "overtrained" you know that you didn't do it soon enough. The first few times you may suddenly feel like you should have done it last week. Next time plan to do it a week sooner.