Underhanded: The remnants of supinated specificity necessity

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tyciol
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Underhanded: The remnants of supinated specificity necessity

Post by tyciol » Sat Jul 28, 2012 12:33 pm

Anybody reading the lats section nowadays will see "chinup" and be linked to a plethora of conformism-labelled exercises where the hand will only be in a supinated position.

As those who have read past rants: 1/2/3/4/5, you will be familiar with the changes in the site which have been documented, and I would like to identify further semantic remnants of how things used to be, the lost age of the 80s, when men were men, and chins were chins.

Examples:
*What is called simply "Chin-up" on the table is actually Underhand Chinup on the URL.
*What is called "Parallel Close Grip Pull-up" on the table is Close Grip Chinup on the URL.

This URL ambiguity is also present in the variations on these exercises:
*What is called "Assisted Pull-up (partner)" is called As Chinup Partner in the URL.
*What is called "Self-assisted Chin-up" is called As Underhand Chinup Self in the URL.
*What is called "Self-assisted Pull-up" is called As Chinup Self in the URL.

This last one shows a damning reality: the default of a 'chinup' in this case was the overhand (pronated) grip. The "underhand" was the variation, not the default. This was not unique to ExRx, this semantics was used throughout the 80s. I have some fitness books from that period, and I have marked pages in them, which use this overhand = chin terminology. It was this way for a long time. I've packed them, but if anyone's interested, perhaps I will unpack them in 2013 and show you all.

Someone changed something, and I don't know who. It's a conspiracy.

The weighted variations are also not lacking the evidence of the past people conspire to hide:
*The "Weighted Chin-up" is called Wt Underhand Chinup
*The "Weighted Parallel Close Grip Pull-up" is called Wt Close Grip Chinup

The truth is apparent. The terms were once interchangeable, or they referred to subtle things like the lean of the torso or the elbow's path. It was never the grip. Never.

Check out this 1952 US Army rehab manual:
Image

Or better yet, this fitness book from 1884:
Image

robertscott
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Re: Underhanded: The remnants of supinated specificity neces

Post by robertscott » Sun Jul 29, 2012 6:36 am

OMG you're right Tyciol! How do you propose we deal with this?

It's clearly Big Pharma at work, in league of course with Al Qaeda. For some reason they're conducting some kind of psychological warfare with the chin up as their target. What do you think their motive is? Perhaps they seek to confuse the issue of chins vs pull ups to a degree so severe that the exercise will be abandoned completely, leading to a generation with no lat or biceps development, thus allowing them to be conquered more easily. Those sneaky bastards.

it's a cold, cruel world tyciol. No one cares about the lat exercises on this website to the same, genuinely rather disturbing extent that you do.

I propose that maybe you should have a little break from the exercise directory on this site. Perhaps join a local sports team or social club? Anything that gets you out the house and away from exrx.net, as I believe the relationship you are developing with the exercise/muscle directory is verging on the unwholesome.

or you could try lifting weights? I hear that's loads of fun

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Re: Underhanded: The remnants of supinated specificity neces

Post by Ironman » Sun Jul 29, 2012 11:32 am

Chin up and pull up are ambiguous and can be defined in many different ways. To me a pullup is just a wide grip overhand version of the chin up. It is wide enough to where it uses a different shoulder articulation. That's just what it means to me though. I think these terms also vary by regional dialect. Therefore the problems you present will be universal and persistent.

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Re: Underhanded: The remnants of supinated specificity neces

Post by tyciol » Mon Aug 06, 2012 12:07 pm

robertscott wrote:Al Qaeda. What do you think their motive is? Perhaps they seek to confuse the issue of chins vs pull ups to a degree so severe that the exercise will be abandoned completely, leading to a generation with no lat or biceps development, thus allowing them to be conquered more easily. Those sneaky bastards.
Exactly. Conan the Barbarian became a great warrior by climbing cliffs. The Afghani have many cliffs, where the caves they hide in are, and surely they climb them to develop strong hands. They would deny us this.
robertscott wrote:Perhaps join a local sports team or social club?
That would require talking to people.
robertscott wrote:you could try lifting weights? I hear that's loads of fun
It is sometimes, until my erector spinae get sore. This is why I am considering spending 400 bucks on a used commercial lat pulldown with a 220lb weight stack. I will build a big back and mold a mighty grip.

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Re: Underhanded: The remnants of supinated specificity neces

Post by robertscott » Mon Aug 06, 2012 1:03 pm

tyciol wrote:
robertscott wrote:Al Qaeda. What do you think their motive is? Perhaps they seek to confuse the issue of chins vs pull ups to a degree so severe that the exercise will be abandoned completely, leading to a generation with no lat or biceps development, thus allowing them to be conquered more easily. Those sneaky bastards.
Exactly. Conan the Barbarian became a great warrior by climbing cliffs. The Afghani have many cliffs, where the caves they hide in are, and surely they climb them to develop strong hands. They would deny us this.
well the original Conan got strong by pushing that weird wheel thing around for years. I'm sure an anatomy geek like yourself would agree that you're setting yourself up for a lifetime of imbalances training that way.
tyciol wrote:
robertscott wrote:Perhaps join a local sports team or social club?
That would require talking to people.
But tyciol, that's a good thing. Think of all the good times you'll have with your newfound friends. And, more importantly, it'll give you some much needed time away from the exercise/muscle directory on this site, which you need tyciol. You need it very much.
tyciol wrote:
robertscott wrote:you could try lifting weights? I hear that's loads of fun
It is sometimes, until my erector spinae get sore. This is why I am considering spending 400 bucks on a used commercial lat pulldown with a 220lb weight stack. I will build a big back and mold a mighty grip.
no no no, don't buy the pulldown. Do chins instead, that'll actually help strengthen up your core and my well help your poor old erectors. Also, fix your squat and deadlift form.

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Re: Underhanded: The remnants of supinated specificity neces

Post by Nevage » Tue Aug 07, 2012 3:37 am

Entertaining thread :grin:

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