Caloric Intake/Cutting

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Travis
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Re: Caloric Intake/Cutting

Post by Travis » Tue Jul 03, 2012 5:24 pm

If you restrict your carb consumption and eat eggs, cholesterol numbers improve.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18203890" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

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emil3m
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Re: Caloric Intake/Cutting

Post by emil3m » Tue Jul 03, 2012 5:32 pm

Travis wrote:If you restrict your carb consumption and eat eggs, cholesterol numbers improve.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18203890" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Not sure about the first article, but this is gold :)
I did find awesome tasting organic 100% eggwhites, but it will taste THAT much better with and egg or two in the mix.

So 20 grams of slow carbs during non-workout related meals would still count as "restricting carbs"?
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Re: Caloric Intake/Cutting

Post by stuward » Tue Jul 03, 2012 5:37 pm

emil3m wrote:
Travis wrote:If you restrict your carb consumption and eat eggs, cholesterol numbers improve.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18203890" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Not sure about the first article, but this is gold :)
I did find awesome tasting organic 100% eggwhites, but it will taste THAT much better with and egg or two in the mix.

So 20 grams of slow carbs during non-workout related meals would still count as "restricting carbs"?
20g is not much. That would allow unlimited fibrous veggies but would exclude grains or tubers. You could get that many carbs in a slice of bread.
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emil3m
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Re: Caloric Intake/Cutting

Post by emil3m » Tue Jul 03, 2012 5:48 pm

stuward wrote:
emil3m wrote:
Travis wrote:If you restrict your carb consumption and eat eggs, cholesterol numbers improve.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18203890" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Not sure about the first article, but this is gold :)
I did find awesome tasting organic 100% eggwhites, but it will taste THAT much better with and egg or two in the mix.

So 20 grams of slow carbs during non-workout related meals would still count as "restricting carbs"?
20g is not much. That would allow unlimited fibrous veggies but would exclude grains or tubers. You could get that many carbs in a slice of bread.
Cheers! and thanks for the link--I've missed yolks!
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Oscar_Actuary
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Re: Caloric Intake/Cutting

Post by Oscar_Actuary » Tue Jul 03, 2012 9:39 pm

stuward wrote:I'm undecided on peanut butter but I prefer to err on the side of caution so I don't eat it.
I error on the side of Peanut Butter tastes really good.

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Re: Caloric Intake/Cutting

Post by emil3m » Tue Jul 03, 2012 11:23 pm

Oscar_Actuary wrote:
stuward wrote:I'm undecided on peanut butter but I prefer to err on the side of caution so I don't eat it.
I error on the side of Peanut Butter tastes really good.
So true!

Flavored greek yogurt has simple carbs. Plain greek yogurt tastes like crap. Solution: as little as half a serving of peanut butter!
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YMMV

Post by josh60 » Wed Jul 04, 2012 4:37 am

robertscott wrote:that cortisol shout is a good point. Saying it's all thermodynamics completely discounts the role of hormones.
Right. That's why my car drives 100 MPG since I started adding cortisol to the fuel.

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Re: YMMV

Post by robertscott » Wed Jul 04, 2012 5:32 am

josh60 wrote:
robertscott wrote:that cortisol shout is a good point. Saying it's all thermodynamics completely discounts the role of hormones.
Right. That's why my car drives 100 MPG since I started adding cortisol to the fuel.
oh very good.

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stuward
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Re: Caloric Intake/Cutting

Post by stuward » Wed Jul 04, 2012 7:54 am

emil3m wrote:
Oscar_Actuary wrote:
stuward wrote:I'm undecided on peanut butter but I prefer to err on the side of caution so I don't eat it.
I error on the side of Peanut Butter tastes really good.
So true!

Flavored greek yogurt has simple carbs. Plain greek yogurt tastes like crap. Solution: as little as half a serving of peanut butter!
You could add your own fruit and berries too. The longer you go without suger, the more you appreciate the tastes of stuff that isn`t sweet. Plain greek yogurt is all I`ll eat now.
Stu Ward
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Re: Caloric Intake/Cutting

Post by emil3m » Wed Jul 04, 2012 8:36 am

stuward wrote: You could add your own fruit and berries too. The longer you go without suger, the more you appreciate the tastes of stuff that isn`t sweet. Plain greek yogurt is all I`ll eat now.
You are so right! I was never a sweet tooth, but became even less so after going Chuck Norris on simple carbs.

Plain Chobani is not pleasant though.. Berries are not practical to carry. I found on good authority that dried apples, plums, apricots, and peaches have all an insanely low GI (under 30). Probably even slower with the casein that is Chobani...
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Re: Caloric Intake/Cutting

Post by Dub » Wed Jul 04, 2012 9:32 am

Sorry Oscar and Robert, I can't write shortly. It's impossible. In case of "Too long, didn't read" -syndrome, I say carbs are the correct nutrient in the workout window. Also I hassle with the meal frequency myth.
emil3m wrote: what is your take on carbs in the morning? you mentioned controlling insulin and this is one of the primary reasons people give for low GI carbs as part of every meal.. As a note, even though I eat carbs every meal, it's a very small amount (20-30 grams) unless it is pre or post workout. Even that is not necessary? Due to diabetes in family history I keep a close eye on GI. even post workout I stay away from the 90s and stay within the banana range for shakes.
Don't get stuck on the GI. Only some fruits, legumes and veggies have an actual low GI. All bread, grain and some fruits have high GI. Diabetes stays off if you control the insulin bursts, which means = Control carb intake. Nothing more. No matter the GI. Rather look at the fiber intake, not the GI-value. Many people recommend zero carbs in the morning. Also the number one fat loss tip is to fast the breakfast, aka eat about an hour or two after you wake up. Low carbs in the morning mean less insulin, which means there is nothing useless (at that point) running in your veins and blocking fat burning. Not much sugar, not much insulin.

I state my view again: IMO, For optimal performance and development, carbs are an essential part of workout nutrition. The window around workouts might be a total of 12 hours, even more. It depends on a lot of things. With nothing else you don't need carbs. I eat some before a workout (optional), and after a workout (less optional). I never go very low on carbs, but keep it to fuits and veggies on off days. For post workout, don't worry about the insulin. If you have it lower on carbs other days, I think you can fairly have 100-250g of carbs after working out. No matter the GI. Almost everything will be sucked into the bodies glycogen storages, in example muscle and liver. Carbs after workout are good for your recovery and performance. They also have a role in preventing muscle cell breakdown (Or muscle protein loss if you want to be precise).
btw, we are talking small meals every 3-4 hours tops, right?
Lies. Meal frequency isn't important. You get results with all the solutions if the macros and nutrients are set well. Wether it's every other hour or once or twice a day. Many athletes can fast 12-30 hours without a problem. Then there are people who like the short meal frequency, eating every 2-4 hours. Whatever suits you best, don't stress it. It's about What you eat, not about When you eat.
Last edited by Dub on Wed Jul 04, 2012 9:37 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Caloric Intake/Cutting

Post by stuward » Wed Jul 04, 2012 9:35 am

emil3m wrote:
stuward wrote: You could add your own fruit and berries too. The longer you go without suger, the more you appreciate the tastes of stuff that isn`t sweet. Plain greek yogurt is all I`ll eat now.
You are so right! I was never a sweet tooth, but became even less so after going Chuck Norris on simple carbs.

Plain Chobani is not pleasant though.. Berries are not practical to carry. I found on good authority that dried apples, plums, apricots, and peaches have all an insanely low GI (under 30). Probably even slower with the casein that is Chobani...
Well, somebody likes Chobani. It`s coming to Canada and all the traditional players are panicking.
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Strength is the adaptation that leads to all other adaptations that you really care about - Charles Staley
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Re: Caloric Intake/Cutting

Post by emil3m » Wed Jul 04, 2012 10:13 am

Dub wrote: - Only some fruits, legumes and veggies have an actual low GI. All bread, grain and some fruits have high GI. Diabetes stays off if you control the insulin bursts, which means = Control carb intake. Nothing more. No matter the GI. Rather look at the fiber intake, not the GI-value.

- Many people recommend zero carbs in the morning. Also the number one fat loss tip is to fast the breakfast, aka eat about an hour or two after you wake up.
wow. Talk about polarizing points :)

A lot of nutrition is bro-science fluff--agreed. But low GI index on things like barley (below 30), ancient grains (quinoa and such), even unrefined oats--aren't these pretty much agreed on across the board?

Same goes for morning fasting--isn't that a big no-no irrespective of who you ask? (I mean, obviously not if one asks you).


I was very surprised to read these two points. Intend to roll up my sleeves and do some digging in that respect..
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Re: Caloric Intake/Cutting

Post by emil3m » Wed Jul 04, 2012 10:14 am

stuward wrote:
emil3m wrote:
stuward wrote: You could add your own fruit and berries too. The longer you go without suger, the more you appreciate the tastes of stuff that isn`t sweet. Plain greek yogurt is all I`ll eat now.
You are so right! I was never a sweet tooth, but became even less so after going Chuck Norris on simple carbs.

Plain Chobani is not pleasant though.. Berries are not practical to carry. I found on good authority that dried apples, plums, apricots, and peaches have all an insanely low GI (under 30). Probably even slower with the casein that is Chobani...
Well, somebody likes Chobani. It`s coming to Canada and all the traditional players are panicking.
I just looked up Halifax! Cool location (in more ways than 1). I can probably throw some over the border from Maine :)

Do you have Fage? It's good but pricier than Chobani down here.
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Re: Caloric Intake/Cutting

Post by Dub » Wed Jul 04, 2012 10:33 am

emil3m wrote: Same goes for morning fasting--isn't that a big no-no irrespective of who you ask? (I mean, obviously not if one asks you).
No, the arguments against breakfast fasting are based on bad science and false logic. There is no reason why the morning fast would be bad for you. Some people can't handle it because of a grown custom to get sugar running straight from the get go. I've live over a half years now with my first meal 1-5hours after waking up and zero problems with it. But if you want to eat breakfast, by all means, do. It's just one good tip to consider when trying to cut fat.

Yeah, sure. If it's lower GI, it's sort of better. If you must eat grains and carbs, pick ones with lots of grains, and possible lower GI. Not that important on the workout window, but a part of clean eating in my opinion. Just don't get too obsessed with the GI value, that was my point. If you have to think about it too much, pick a fruit or a veggie that's certainly cleaner. (Not all fruits of course).

Atleast here in Finland, real and 100% clean grains in example are hard to find. Whole wheat is actually 50% whole wheat, oat bread has rye or wheat in it, etc. Some oats are also very high GI, so you need to think that as well. But it's relatively high on fiber and practically gluten free. There is no one thing to look at. I use oats on my pre- and post workout shakes pretty often, since it's a pretty quick absorbing high fiber carb.
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