Some questions for workout program

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ephs
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Re: Some questions for workout program

Post by ephs » Mon Jan 21, 2013 5:21 am

upper/lower is a bit senseless, if your goal is strength, cause there are few good compound exercises for legs.
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Re: Some questions for workout program

Post by robertscott » Mon Jan 21, 2013 6:07 am

led7x wrote:I'll go with upper lower, i was just afraid that i wont get good results if i combine many different muscles in one workout
upper lower is great, you could use the TimD split:

Upper A
Horizontal Push/pull

Lower A
Quad/knee dominant

Upper B
Vertical Push/pull

Lower B
Hip/Hamstring dominant

doesn't get much better than that

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Re: Some questions for workout program

Post by robertscott » Mon Jan 21, 2013 6:17 am

ephs wrote:upper/lower is a bit senseless, if your goal is strength, cause there are few good compound exercises for legs.
back squats, front squats, box squats, anderson squats, jefferson squats, zercher squats, split squats, bulgarian split squats, skater squats, lunges, static lunges, reverse lunges, reverse lunges from deficit, lateral lunges, deadlifts, sumo deadlifts, romanian deadlifts, deficit deadlifts, rack pulls, good mornings, step ups, not to mention there's about a thousand ways you can use the leg press.

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Re: Some questions for workout program

Post by ephs » Mon Jan 21, 2013 7:05 am

robertscott wrote:
ephs wrote:upper/lower is a bit senseless, if your goal is strength, cause there are few good compound exercises for legs.
back squats, front squats, box squats, anderson squats, jefferson squats, zercher squats, split squats, bulgarian split squats, skater squats, lunges, static lunges, reverse lunges, reverse lunges from deficit, lateral lunges, deadlifts, sumo deadlifts, romanian deadlifts, deficit deadlifts, rack pulls, good mornings, step ups, not to mention there's about a thousand ways you can use the leg press.

I've got my eye on you, matey.
impressive list!

but...you can narrow your list down to squats and step ups mainly for legs, lunges are not a basic movement imo, and the hip dominant movements down to deadlifts.

why would you do many different kinds of deadlifts or squats on one day? you could better make 10 sets of back squats and a few sets of conventional deadlifts. the simpler the better, no need to throw in tons of different exercises, when training for strength. for bulking it's another story.

"variety for variety's sake is pointless" - mark rippetoe
Last edited by ephs on Mon Jan 21, 2013 7:11 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Some questions for workout program

Post by ephs » Mon Jan 21, 2013 7:07 am

robertscott wrote:
led7x wrote:I'll go with upper lower, i was just afraid that i wont get good results if i combine many different muscles in one workout
upper lower is great, you could use the TimD split:

Upper A
Horizontal Push/pull

Lower A
Quad/knee dominant

Upper B
Vertical Push/pull

Lower B
Hip/Hamstring dominant

doesn't get much better than that
interesting split, but this takes a lot of time.
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Re: Some questions for workout program

Post by led7x » Mon Jan 21, 2013 8:37 am

robertscott wrote:
led7x wrote:I'll go with upper lower, i was just afraid that i wont get good results if i combine many different muscles in one workout
upper lower is great, you could use the TimD split:

Upper A
Horizontal Push/pull

Lower A
Quad/knee dominant

Upper B
Vertical Push/pull

Lower B
Hip/Hamstring dominant

doesn't get much better than that
It looks great; Will it be any good if Weights and BW are combined ( Bench press and Pushups for example or Deadlifts and pistol squats...), I really like doing BW so thats why i'm always asking for that :) This sound better, than program in first page (by Dub).

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Re: Some questions for workout program

Post by Dub » Mon Jan 21, 2013 9:55 am

There's nothing sensless about upper/lower splits. Especially when talking about building strength. Many great strength programs utilize some sort of upper lower split. Take 531 or westside for example. If that is sensless then I'll just go to lift with Tracy Anderson from now on.
How does upper/lower take a lot of time? Again, check my workout:
Two main exercises per day:

Workout A:
Squat variation
Deadlift variation

Workout B:
Bench Press
Rowing variation

Workout C:
Deadlift
Squat Variation

Workout D:
Pull-up
Press variation

Everything else you do is EXTRA. There's nothing complicated or long or hard or nothing in that. It's very simple lifting with quaranteed recovery and it's based pretty much on every succefull strength program used.
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Re: Some questions for workout program

Post by robertscott » Mon Jan 21, 2013 10:20 am

led7x wrote:
robertscott wrote:
led7x wrote:I'll go with upper lower, i was just afraid that i wont get good results if i combine many different muscles in one workout
upper lower is great, you could use the TimD split:

Upper A
Horizontal Push/pull

Lower A
Quad/knee dominant

Upper B
Vertical Push/pull

Lower B
Hip/Hamstring dominant

doesn't get much better than that
It looks great; Will it be any good if Weights and BW are combined ( Bench press and Pushups for example or Deadlifts and pistol squats...), I really like doing BW so thats why i'm always asking for that :) This sound better, than program in first page (by Dub).
ya, do the bodyweight stuff after your big lifts, nothing wrong with that at all. So a sample Upper A could be:

Bench 5x5
Dumbell Row
Accessory Press
Accessory Row
Vanity stuff (delts, upper arms etc)
push up/inverted row superset

that's one way of doing it, there's not really a wrong way. Just make sure you have 2 "big" lifts, and accessory lifts to complement those (like a dumbell incline press to complement bench)

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Re: Some questions for workout program

Post by ephs » Mon Jan 21, 2013 10:46 am

@dub: OP sounds like a barbell training beginner, why should he do 531 then? your suggested split takes a lot of time, cause you have to workout 4 days a week. you could easily do this in 3 days with the same success. after some months he could change to working out 4 days a week.
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Re: Some questions for workout program

Post by led7x » Mon Jan 21, 2013 11:17 am

I'm beginner with barbell/dumbbell stuff eventhought I'm currently in training from doing BW stuff from last two months. Time is not a problem, I also thought working out 4x per week.
@robertscott What are accessory lifts?

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Re: Some questions for workout program

Post by ephs » Mon Jan 21, 2013 11:25 am

led7x wrote:I'm beginner with barbell/dumbbell stuff eventhought I'm currently in training from doing BW stuff from last two months. Time is not a problem, I also thought working out 4x per week.
@robertscott What are accessory lifts?
if you really want to train 4 times a week, then the above mentioned program from dub is good.
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Re: Some questions for workout program

Post by robertscott » Mon Jan 21, 2013 12:18 pm

led7x wrote:I'm beginner with barbell/dumbbell stuff eventhought I'm currently in training from doing BW stuff from last two months. Time is not a problem, I also thought working out 4x per week.
@robertscott What are accessory lifts?
accessory lifts complement the main lift. They are similar, but not identical. For example, dumbell press complements bench press, lunges complement squats. You get the idea.

Feel free to post your routine and we'll critique it for you

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Re: Some questions for workout program

Post by robertscott » Mon Jan 21, 2013 12:21 pm

ephs wrote:
robertscott wrote:
ephs wrote:upper/lower is a bit senseless, if your goal is strength, cause there are few good compound exercises for legs.
back squats, front squats, box squats, anderson squats, jefferson squats, zercher squats, split squats, bulgarian split squats, skater squats, lunges, static lunges, reverse lunges, reverse lunges from deficit, lateral lunges, deadlifts, sumo deadlifts, romanian deadlifts, deficit deadlifts, rack pulls, good mornings, step ups, not to mention there's about a thousand ways you can use the leg press.

I've got my eye on you, matey.
impressive list!

but...you can narrow your list down to squats and step ups mainly for legs, lunges are not a basic movement imo, and the hip dominant movements down to deadlifts.

why would you do many different kinds of deadlifts or squats on one day? you could better make 10 sets of back squats and a few sets of conventional deadlifts. the simpler the better, no need to throw in tons of different exercises, when training for strength. for bulking it's another story.

"variety for variety's sake is pointless" - mark rippetoe
no one said you had to do every exercise on the list, I was just showing you that your statement that there are few good compound exercises for legs was wrong.

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Re: Some questions for workout program

Post by ephs » Mon Jan 21, 2013 12:30 pm

robertscott wrote: no one said you had to do every exercise on the list, I was just showing you that your statement that there are few good compound exercises for legs was wrong.
yes, and i wanted to point out that i meant basic exercises, friendo :wink:
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Re: Some questions for workout program

Post by led7x » Mon Jan 21, 2013 12:39 pm

So this is what I came up with

Upper A (Horizontal Push/pull):
-Dumbbell press
-Dumbbell flys
-Dumbbell rows variations
-Pushups Variations

Lower A:
- Squats
- Deadlifts
-Abs?

Upper B (Vertical push/pull):
- Pull ups variations
-Overhead shoulder press
-

Lower B:
- Squats
- Deadlift
- Abs?

I need some exercises for vertical push/pull and here to dips belong and what about repetitions?

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