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Touching Your Toes

Posted: Wed Feb 13, 2013 4:50 am
by KPj
Had to share as I know some are struggling with this.

Here's Gray Cook on the Toe Touch. He explains how it relates to deadlifting, goes over various reasons why someone can't, the relevance to Active Straight Leg Raise, why a flexed lumbar spine is ok on toe touch but not during a deadlift, and some other gems." onclick=";return false;


Re: Touching Your Toes

Posted: Thu Feb 14, 2013 1:00 pm
by JasonJones
So he can fix the toe touch in "less than a minute," and we can find out how for the low low price of $99 for a DVD?

I actually like Gray Cook — and would pay $99 to listen to him speak! — but this just smacks of the snake oil salesmanship that permeates this industry, unless I missed something in that entry.

Re: Touching Your Toes

Posted: Fri Feb 15, 2013 6:13 am
by KPj
I didn't take it that way. I thought there was some good information in the video and audio as well as the text.

Most don't understand the connection or relevance between movement and exercise, never mind the relevance of being able to touch your toes. And those who do know about the toe-touch mostly assume it's a hamstring or lower back flexibility test, and I think that page explains (free of charge) in reasonable depth that the toe-touch is much more than that. Going further, people really struggle to link the toe touch with a deadlift i.e the touch touch is to the deadlift what a body weight squat is to a loaded squat, and this is covered, too. As well as why it's ok to flex lumbar spine during toe touch but not during a deadlift, which is another common cause of confusion and, again, addressed for free....

I remember the first time I "got" the "brakes" analogy - your brain putting the breaks on your movement. So that's why your hammies feel stiff but aren't actually "inflexible". This one point completely changed the way I thought about the body. I thought the link explained this well (and better than i've been able to myself).

If you already understand these things then you may not get much from the snippet of info on that page.

I think due to the general crap that gets sold in this industry, many take the attitude that if someone is just trying to sell something, then it must be crap. I don't grudge people for making a living. I think people want their hand held too much. Be a smart consumer. In this case, it'll take several days at least to get through the information Gray Cook has up for free, available to anyone. You just need to dig around a little.

As for the "improve toe touch in 1 minute" thing, this is true, and this way of thinking is why I really buy into his stuff, and others like him. In his/their view, if you try any kind of corrective and you have it right, then you should see instant improvement. I really like this because it's easily quantifiable - try this, re test, has it improved? Nope, ok, try something else, has it improved? Yip, ok, bingo, I know what we need to do. I don't even need to understand "why" but I can figure out "how". This is a massive change in mindset from people doing correctives for 6 months then kinda coming to the conclusion that they're not working. I want to know "now" if we're in the right place, not in 6 months.

However, and maybe the point was lost somewhere in that page or is more obvious to me because i'm quite familiar with his work - instant improvement means nothing if you can't make the change stick. In other words, the client being able to show improved movement without any correctives or even a warm up. The instant improvement thing is almost thrown around flippantly but I guess to someone who isn't familiar with his work, this won't be obvious at all.


Re: Touching Your Toes

Posted: Fri Feb 15, 2013 8:28 am
by robertscott
I hate it when you post stuff like this Kenny. Reminds me of my inadequacies

Re: Touching Your Toes

Posted: Fri Feb 15, 2013 9:48 am
by KenDowns
In a couple of years I will decide either that Gray Cook is a crook and a sheister, or he is a genius pioneer who saved us from ourselves.

The basic thesis is very well stated in the linked page. Mobility comes before stability, stability before motion (under load). If you can't execute certain simple motions, then your "stable" base for heavy lifts is not where it should be, it is not stable!

The best example is right in the book Athletic Body in Balance, that was the explanation that made it click for me. He states that a great many sports involve a "ready stance" that is a crouch somewhere between standing bolt upright and squatting down to the floor. If your squatting range is limited, your ready stance will be too high and you will be at a disadvantage. The linked page uses the same type of explanations and reasoning.

However, I won't pay 99 until I've gotten my money's worth out of AB in Balance, which will take some time. :smile:

Re: Touching Your Toes

Posted: Fri Feb 15, 2013 11:06 am
by KPj
Its worth noting that i'm not pushing the DVD but sharing the info on the page, audio and video files, which I felt was quite good.

I don't actually think that would be a good dvd to start with. There's probably about a dozen others that would be a better place to start, and I also think this one would be better suited to trainers. If a product like that has value, $99 is a bargain and you'll get your money back on it instantly, especially if you deal with the "de-conditioned" as I do. If I just got one or two exercise from that DVD that addressed issues I came across quite often, I would easily get my money back on it.

Also, I don't have it, I actually don't have most of his DVD's (yet). However, i've "fixed"* movement issues in minutes. People think you're showing them magic. It's actually quite simple (when you have it right), it just takes a genuis to make it simple, which is where Cook etc come in.

*I've starred "fixed" again to emphasise it's used almost flippantly. It's not supposed to be, "wow, fix your toe touch in 1 minute after buying our DVD!". It's almost like, "I can fix your toe touch in 1 minute.... So what? You're just going to go move like crap again and come back with the same issues" - again the magic is making it stick. You should see the "fix" instantly, atleast to some extent, if you're addressing the correct things. Making the fix permanent is where the real challenge is. For me, I like to have a lot of options because I just trial and error things and see what happens (it's mega scientific :tongue: )


Re: Touching Your Toes

Posted: Fri Feb 15, 2013 11:33 am
by stuward
Didn't he explain how to correct the toe touch in Athletic Body in Balance? Just bend down until you can reach your toes, then straighten your knees, or bend you knees to complete the ATG squat. I don't have the book but I'm sure I didn't come up with that on my own.

Re: Touching Your Toes

Posted: Fri Feb 15, 2013 11:54 am
by JasonJones
I don't disagree with you, Kenny. I don't even disagree with Gray. I just think tell but don't show smacks of either crass commercialism or glib braggadocio.