Training schedule confusion

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HealthyJay
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Training schedule confusion

Post by HealthyJay » Thu Feb 28, 2013 10:41 pm

Hi all! I hope someone can help me...

I just started a 4 day a week, split, push/pull weight lifting workout routine off this site (ABXABXX). I was wondering if i am only supposed to choose ONE exercise per muscle group listed for push/pull muscle order? Or can i do more than one? Would doing more than one be harmful?

Thanks!
-HealthyJay

HealthyJay
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Re: Training schedule confusion

Post by HealthyJay » Thu Feb 28, 2013 10:45 pm

Just for example, the first push muscle group is chest (general), but it has both normal bench press (which i need) and dumbell fly (which i would also want to do) in the same catergory.

Thanks! :D

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Re: Training schedule confusion

Post by Oscar_Actuary » Fri Mar 01, 2013 12:49 am

maybe do this

Plan for an hour workout
Do legs 40 min and upper 20 min

Get whatever pushing and pulling you can get in; starting with a compound in each.

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Re: Training schedule confusion

Post by robertscott » Fri Mar 01, 2013 6:04 am

do as many exercises per muscle group as you can handle. I would definitely do more than one though

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Re: Training schedule confusion

Post by Jungledoc » Fri Mar 01, 2013 8:51 am

Set up a plan, and try it for a while. Then vary it a bit and see how that works.
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HealthyJay
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Re: Training schedule confusion

Post by HealthyJay » Fri Mar 01, 2013 9:18 am

As my workout routine is now, i have been doing about 1 exercise per muscle group listed. I def feel like i need to do more than 1 per some muscle groups, but my workout is already taking me an hr and a half. I work out between my morning job and my night job, so i can't really make it any longer. Any suggestions? I am shooting for 6-10 reps per set to build strength specifically. How long between sets should i rest? Maybe i am resting too long and that is making my workout too long to add more exercises?

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Dub
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Re: Training schedule confusion

Post by Dub » Fri Mar 01, 2013 10:10 am

Well hell, cut the amount of exercises. You have Push/Pull split, but still you talk about muscle group isolation? What's going on? How do your workouts really look like? How many exercises per workout?

I think you migth be missing the point of movement specific splits
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Re: Training schedule confusion

Post by robertscott » Fri Mar 01, 2013 11:32 am

1 exercise per muscle group, and it takes an hour and a half? Something does not compute here

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Re: Training schedule confusion

Post by HealthyJay » Fri Mar 01, 2013 11:52 am

robertscott wrote:1 exercise per muscle group, and it takes an hour and a half? Something does not compute here
No kidding! That's why i am so confused...
Dub wrote:Well hell, cut the amount of exercises. You have Push/Pull split, but still you talk about muscle group isolation? What's going on? How do your workouts really look like? How many exercises per workout?

I think you migth be missing the point of movement specific splits
I probably am, and that's why i need the help! Here is my exact Push routine to use as an example. I can put my Pull routine on here too if that would help:

Push:
Barbell Squat
Dumbbell Bench press
Leg press (machine, not sled)
Dumbbell incl bench
Hip abductor (machine)
Arnold press
Calf press
Overhead tricep press

I'm shooting for 6-10 reps, and 3 sets each exercise. Help?

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Re: Training schedule confusion

Post by robertscott » Fri Mar 01, 2013 12:00 pm

split it into push/pull/legs

so all your upper body push exercises on one day, then all your upper body pulls on the other, then all your legs on a third.

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Re: Training schedule confusion

Post by Oscar_Actuary » Fri Mar 01, 2013 1:23 pm

you say this...
HealthyJay wrote:As my workout routine is now, i have been doing about 1 exercise per muscle group listed.
but then you also say this...
HealthyJay wrote:I can put my Pull routine on here too if that would help:

Push:
Barbell Squat
Dumbbell Bench press
Leg press (machine, not sled)
Dumbbell incl bench
Hip abductor (machine)
Arnold press
Calf press
Overhead tricep press
I see a problem

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Re: Training schedule confusion

Post by HealthyJay » Fri Mar 01, 2013 1:37 pm

Oscar_Actuary wrote:I see a problem
Exactly... That is why i am asking for help... How i made my routine was through this site: i clicked on the push/pull under the weight training part of the site. There it breaks it down into various muscle groups to work in order. I clicked on each muscle group and it brought up a list of exercises that work mainly that particular group, so i chose one from that list to do for that muscle group, then moved onto the next muscle group on the list. If i am missing something please explain...

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Dub
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Re: Training schedule confusion

Post by Dub » Fri Mar 01, 2013 1:50 pm

HealthyJay wrote: I probably am, and that's why i need the help! Here is my exact Push routine to use as an example. I can put my Pull routine on here too if that would help:

Push:
Barbell Squat
Dumbbell Bench press
Leg press (machine, not sled)
Dumbbell incl bench
Hip abductor (machine)
Arnold press
Calf press
Overhead tricep press

I'm shooting for 6-10 reps, and 3 sets each exercise. Help?
I'd say you could split your routine even more, or cut some exercises. You do realise that you have 4 exercises that work the triceps, yet only 2 that actually work the big leg muscles?

What's with the abductor machine?

Your routine is a weird fusion of strength and hypertrophy. Using high volume, doing lots of exercise, yet still having quite low density and mixed frequency program. 6-10 is okay for strength, but I'd suggest you to go to 5 or below in atleast one of the exercises per workout. That will assist your hypertrophic needs as well.
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Re: Training schedule confusion

Post by HealthyJay » Fri Mar 01, 2013 2:48 pm

Dub wrote: I'd say you could split your routine even more, or cut some exercises.
So i am doing too may exercises?
Dub wrote:You do realise that you have 4 exercises that work the triceps, yet only 2 that actually work the big leg muscles?
Should i be doing more push exercises for legs? I work my hamstrings on a pull day.
Dub wrote: with the abductor machine?
I get hip cramps sometimes and thought this would help. Also it's one of the muscles to exercise under this website's "push" section.
Dub wrote:Your routine is a weird fusion of strength and hypertrophy. Using high volume, doing lots of exercise, yet still having quite low density and mixed frequency program. 6-10 is okay for strength, but I'd suggest you to go to 5 or below in atleast one of the exercises per workout. That will assist your hypertrophic needs as well.
Sorry but i'm still new to this... Is low density and mixed frequency bad? Also should i be shooting for 5 reps for ALL exercises? Or just for one or two thrown in?

Here is the link to the page i used to make my routine if it helps explain what i did. Any more suggestions? I appreciate all the feedback!!!

http://exrx.net/Workouts/Workout2PP.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

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Re: Training schedule confusion

Post by Jungledoc » Fri Mar 01, 2013 5:03 pm

There are 2 issues here, both important. You are asking about one of them, and people are answering about both, so it may com across as confusing. You are asking about the number of exercises, and people have added comments about the organization of your training, your "template", though they haven't used that word.

The idea that you need 1 exercise for every muscle group will lead you to insanity. There are too many muscle groups. But there's hope. If you rely mostly on compound exercises (which you do to some extent if your push day is representative), you will work lots of muscle groups with only a few exercises. There may be good reasons to use isolation exercises at times (moves that work only one muscle), but they are of much less importance. So for instance, you squat, so you don't need leg press or the abductor machine. You might use these sometimes, but they aren't part of the heart and soul of your training. You have BB bench press. The DB incline press is a fine exercise, but it will probably be something that you put in from time to time as an "accessory" lift.

We have a habit here of answering questions that weren't asked. Sometimes that frustrates the poster, who isn't getting a clear answer to what he or she thought was the important question, but people with experience see issues that are often bigger than what the poster is asking. That's why everyone immediately started dissecting your split.

It will be easier and simpler for you if you stop trying to think through every muscle group, and think about movement. There are 6 basic movements, and if you cover them with roughly equal emphasis, you will have pretty balanced training, and your workouts won't be too terribly long.

Vertical push (i.e. press)
Vertical pull (i.e. chinups, etc.)
Horizontal push (i.e. bench, etc.)
Horizontal pull (rowing, etc.)
Hip dominant lower body/posterior chain (i.e., deadlift)
Knee dominant lower (i.e., squat)
HealthyJay wrote::
Push:
Barbell Squat
Dumbbell Bench press
Leg press (machine, not sled)
Dumbbell incl bench
Hip abductor (machine)
Arnold press
Calf press
Overhead tricep press
So, if you dropped everything except the squat and a bench press, you'd have time for an overhead press, and you could be out of the gym in an hour. On your other day you could deadlift, do some sort of row, and some chinups, and again be out in an hour, and you'd have a pretty balanced routine. But I know how people are, you'll want to put in a few other lifts. Fine, if you have time. Pick 1 or 2 to include for a few weeks at a time, or even very them every workout. Don't go real heavy with these. If you hit your main lifts hard you won't have the energy to anyway.

Do the biggest lifts first, i.e., the one that uses the most muscle. Do any isolation moves last.

Good luck, and welcome to the forum.
Our greatest fear should not be of failure, but of succeeding at things in life that don't really matter.--Francis Chan

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