Rep range & other stuff for old goat...

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anzafrank
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Rep range & other stuff for old goat...

Post by anzafrank » Wed Jun 19, 2013 3:23 pm

At the young punk age of 65 I'm told to to rest 3 min. between sets and warm ups, and with shoulder issues etc. at times (most) I have to do several warm ups, and with all that, how the h%%% am I supposed to keep the work out to no more than 45 min. to an hour?

I work out on a weider (fake bowflex), bands, and a little dumbbells, and have been doing push/pull/legs hitting everything once per week m-w-f. with walking most days plus a stationary bike 3 times per week just enough to get out of breath maybe 10 min. Doesn't seem to be enough exercise to keep my weight down, stopped drinking beer over a year ago, but my wife having sweets in the house doesn't help a whole lot. It's all her fault isn't it?

I just started working out every other day doing upper, skip a day, then lower hitting everything twice per week now. Of course I can't throw a half hour away resting doing a full upper body, or lower workout etc., so I'm not resting as I'm going right to the next exercise until I've done two sets per muscle group, and am doing about 15 reps instead of 10 trying to be easier on the old joints. Depending on what site you go to they recommend 15 to 20 reps with lighter weights at my age, and don't even specify rest periods. I know that doing a circuit like I'm doing will get more fat off, but am wondering is strength gains can still be had if any? Any thoughts? Thanks,

Frank

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Re: Rep range & other stuff for old goat...

Post by hoosegow » Wed Jun 19, 2013 8:17 pm

Lots of thoughts, Frank. The first is a question. What is your main goal? It appears that it is an overall level of cardio and strength fitness. Going off of that, my basic recommendation to you would be to shorten the rest between sets. The three minute rule is a general rule of thumb for strength gain. For you, warm up, do your work reps and recoup just enough to complete another set.

Focus on compound movements - squat, deadlift, bench and oh press movements as you can with your equipment. I'd almost recommend ditching your equipment and go with some other stuff. You can use a wheelbarrow loaded with sand or dirt and move it. Grab an axe or sledge and swing it. Get some sand bags and play with them.

Hell, for $300, but a prowler. You'll get stronger and in really good shape.

Let us know your goals and we can adjust.
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Re: Rep range & other stuff for old goat...

Post by Kenny Croxdale » Thu Jun 20, 2013 8:11 am

anzafrank wrote:At the young punk age of 65 I'm told to to rest 3 min. between sets and warm ups, and with shoulder issues etc. at times (most) I have to do several warm ups, and with all that, how the h%%% am I supposed to keep the work out to no more than 45 min. to an hour?
3 Minute Rules

This applies when performing Limit Strength (max), Power and Speed Training.

It isn't necessary to take 3 minutes rest periods even for strength athletes with the first few warm up sets.

3 minutes rest periods isn't recommended for Hypertrophy (bodybuilding) or endurance training.

I work out on a weider (fake bowflex), bands, and a little dumbbells, and have been doing push/pull/legs hitting everything once per week m-w-f. with walking most days plus a stationary bike 3 times per week just enough to get out of breath maybe 10 min. Doesn't seem to be enough exercise to keep my weight down, stopped drinking beer over a year ago, but my wife having sweets in the house doesn't help a whole lot. It's all her fault isn't it?
Interval Training

One of the most effective method of increasing your metabolism is to perform some type of cardio interval training. There is information on line about this, High Intensity Interval Training Exercise.

Caloric Intake

As you know at some point decreasing caloric intake is necessary. Evidently, you have done that to some extent. However, the sweets is a problem.

I just started working out every other day doing upper, skip a day, then lower hitting everything twice per week now. Of course I can't throw a half hour away resting doing a full upper body, or lower workout etc., so I'm not resting as I'm going right to the next exercise until I've done two sets per muscle group, and am doing about 15 reps instead of 10 trying to be easier on the old joints. Depending on what site you go to they recommend 15 to 20 reps with lighter weights at my age, and don't even specify rest periods. I know that doing a circuit like I'm doing will get more fat off, but am wondering is strength gains can still be had if any? Any thoughts? Thanks,
[/quote]

Lighter Weight/Higher Reps

This is going to be easier on the joints. However, 15 to 20 reps for older health individuals is non-sense.

Higher reps develop the Slow Twitch, Type I fiber but do very little for the Fast Twitch, Type II fiber.

Type II Muscle Fiber Atrophy

One problem with aging is the atrophy of Type II muscle fiber.

Type II muscle fiber are activated with heavy loads/low reps, power or speed movements and eccentrics.

That means you need to consider some type of training that activates the Fast Twitch, Type II fiber.

Kenny Croxdale
Thanks TimD.

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Re: Rep range & other stuff for old goat...

Post by anzafrank » Thu Jun 20, 2013 2:05 pm

hoosegow wrote:Lots of thoughts, Frank. The first is a question. What is your main goal? It appears that it is an overall level of cardio and strength fitness. Going off of that, my basic recommendation to you would be to shorten the rest between sets. The three minute rule is a general rule of thumb for strength gain. For you, warm up, do your work reps and recoup just enough to complete another set.

Focus on compound movements - squat, deadlift, bench and oh press movements as you can with your equipment. I'd almost recommend ditching your equipment and go with some other stuff. You can use a wheelbarrow loaded with sand or dirt and move it. Grab an axe or sledge and swing it. Get some sand bags and play with them.

Hell, for $300, but a prowler. You'll get stronger and in really good shape.

Let us know your goals and we can adjust.
My goals are just what you said; cardio and strength. Sorry to say I can't do squats, dl etc. because of my back, so i'm forced to do leg exts., leg curls, and using a band with ankle cuffs pulling and pushing 4 directions. Upper is bp, sp, lat pulls, rowing, gm, very light rotator cuffs. With more time I do flys,curls, laterals.

Which prowler were you referring to? I looked it up and they have stations, treadmills etc. I paid 300 for my pos weider max.
Last edited by anzafrank on Thu Jun 20, 2013 2:57 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Rep range & other stuff for old goat...

Post by anzafrank » Thu Jun 20, 2013 2:52 pm

Thanks Kenny and Hoosecow,

I'm guessing 10 rep range is ok? Most of the time I have to do 3 or 4 warm ups each for chest and shoulder press, with the rest mostly one warm up. As far as interval training, i'm not sure if that wouldn't be too much with walking 45min to an hour per day, stationary bike 3 per week, and my hips get sore quickly. I tried bodylastics circuit training once with cardio (easy) between lifts, and my hips couldn't take it. I also do a lot of stretching out of necessity.

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Re: Rep range & other stuff for old goat...

Post by hoosegow » Fri Jun 21, 2013 8:52 am

Image
http://articles.elitefts.com/training-a ... dd-header/

10 rep range is fine.

I think you are going to be limited on your progress if you only use your equipment. I'm only suggesting the Prowler because it works and you can do so much with it.
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Re: Rep range & other stuff for old goat...

Post by Jungledoc » Sat Jun 22, 2013 12:05 am

If you can't get all the sets of all the exercises done in your intended time limit, you are trying to do either too many exercises or too many reps of each. Consider paring down the total exercise, and follow Hoosegow's suggestion above. And if you are usually doing 3 sets, try cutting to 2 sets, etc.
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Re: Rep range & other stuff for old goat...

Post by pdellorto » Sat Jun 22, 2013 7:33 pm

For what it's worth, with my older clients I try to get them doing:

- some stuff in the 6-8 rep range

- some in the 10-12 rep range

- some in the 15-20 rep range

Usually over the course of 1-2 workouts. I tend to err on the low side of total volume, but I always end up using a mix of rep ranges. I want some strength and some endurance and some hypertrophy, and I find that I can't keep the intensity or the overall volume up too high for too long, so it makes sense to alternate them. In my experience, anyway.
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Re: Rep range & other stuff for old goat...

Post by anzafrank » Sat Jun 22, 2013 10:45 pm

I can see I need to stop being so lazy and do a lot more reading as the reps can't stay the same. Having a bad back and not being able to do squats, dl's etc. makes the workout longer trying to accomplish the same thing but not really being able to. I will cut it down to compounds only, but will still have to do leg ext. and leg curls plus good mornings, right? I've had a lay off, so I might just try a full body 3 per week with lower weight/reps (6-8-10-12 w one minutes rest switching it around without hurting anything using perfect form instead of too heavy, but would like to do it all in 45 min. or so.

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Re: Rep range & other stuff for old goat...

Post by Kenny Croxdale » Sun Jun 23, 2013 7:15 am

anzafrank wrote:I can see I need to stop being so lazy and do a lot more reading as the reps can't stay the same. Having a bad back and not being able to do squats, dl's etc. makes the workout longer trying to accomplish the same thing but not really being able to. I will cut it down to compounds only, but will still have to do leg ext. and leg curls plus good mornings, right? I've had a lay off, so I might just try a full body 3 per week with lower weight/reps (6-8-10-12 w one minutes rest switching it around without hurting anything using perfect form instead of too heavy, but would like to do it all in 45 min. or so.
Leg Extensions

This is a worthless exercise. I has some minimal value with rehab. That is it.

If I come to your house and find you doing Leg Extension, I am going to break both you legs.

Time Under Tension

Another method of strengthening and building muscle mass is to place it under tension for longer periods during each repetition and set.

Bench Press Example:

1) Eccentric Action: Take 10 seconds to lower the weight.

2) Concentric Contraction: Take 5 seconds to push the weight up.

3) Slow Transition: Take 1 -2 seconds to transition from the downward movement to the upward movement.

Total Tension Time

Thus, you place the muscle under a minimum of 15 seconds of tension when performing this type of Bench Press.

This allows you to stress the muscles with lower loads, rather than having to do heavy.

Compound Leg Exercises Minimal Back

Dumbbell Step Up or Dumbbell Lunges are one leg Squats; compound movements that overload the legs while minimizing the back involvement.

Backward Lunges

Stepping back insures your shin remain at a 90 degree angle to the floor. By maintaining the 90 degree angle less force is place on your knees.

Shear Force

Driving your knee forward over you toe places a lot of shear force. That often occurs with forward Lunges.

Good Mornings

Great exercise. However, if it hurt your back...don't do it.

Reading

As Alwyn Cosgrove (Strength Coach) said, "No one ever got dumber from reading a book (anything).

Jungledoc

As he stated, you may be doing too much.

In other word, you can't put 10 lbs of sand into a 5 lb bag.

pdellorto

As he said, better to do too little that too much.

Hoosegow (Alex)

As he said, if you more in to cardio, then shorten your rest periods.

This Board

Like most here, I post on this board and others.

This board's posters are one of the more educated groups. That means you end up with some good option to resolve your problem.

Kenny Croxdale
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Re: Rep range & other stuff for old goat...

Post by Kenny Croxdale » Sun Jun 23, 2013 7:18 am

hoosegow wrote:Hell, for $300, buy a prowler.
Where can you get one for $300?

Kenny
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Re: Rep range & other stuff for old goat...

Post by hoosegow » Sun Jun 23, 2013 11:26 am

The one I posted is 279. Wait for a sale and you can get it to the door for around $300
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Re: Rep range & other stuff for old goat...

Post by JasonJones » Sun Jun 23, 2013 1:17 pm

Why don't you try taking a look at Eric Cressey's Neanderthal No More series? I find it's a very malleable program that's great foundational and strength work for older clients. Someone earlier also mentioned Alwyn Cosgrove, and I'm a big fan of New Rules of Lifting by Lou Schuler and Alwyn Cosgrove for adults over 50.

I agree with the consensus on avoiding things like leg extensions for your particular set of goals. Targeting muscles (or even muscle groups) is only going to run you into the ground and out of time. You should focus on movements and improving your body's ability to tolerate them. Not squatting at all is only going to decrease your capability in your day to day activities and increase the chances you'll get hurt picking something up or moving something. Your back might prevent you from loading a squat in a way you'd like, but barring a truly serious injury you should be able to find a squat variation that you can use to improve your ability to use that movement in a healthy way around your home or workplace.
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Re: Rep range & other stuff for old goat...

Post by Jungledoc » Sun Jun 23, 2013 10:36 pm

I believe that the NROL book targeted at people over 50 is "The New Rules of Lifting for Abs". Poor choice of name. Book's OK.
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Re: Rep range & other stuff for old goat...

Post by anzafrank » Mon Jun 24, 2013 7:47 pm

Lots of good advice here and i'm going to give most of it a try, but have a few questions. When a person has arthritis and bursitis in the hips and I believe some in my knees, should I try to slowly work through the pain like doing step ups, backword lunges etc., and could the problems get better through work somehow? I know for several years i've tried to pick up my walking pace from moderate to brisk only to pay for it trying to get to sleep with hip pain. It seems that the more pressure I put on my hips the more pain I get later.

I did try the time under tension thing and it really works with very little resistance! I did do a bunch of leg extentions though. Just kidding Kenny. It would be fantastic if I never have to do them again after what you guys have said about them. I just hope my old bones will allow me to do so. It's a bubble popper when you think you know most everything, or at least enough to get you by only to find out you know almost nothing. You guys are great and thank you very much for taking all the time to help!

Frank

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