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Deltoid (lateral): Push or Pull?

Posted: Wed Jul 17, 2013 10:41 pm
by Brak
According the the shoulder articulation page the muscle does the following:
Lateral movement away from the midline of the body; moving the upper arm up to the side away from the body.

The definition of "Push" given in the glossary is the following:
Movement away from center of body during the concentric contraction of the target muscle. Isolated movements are classified by their compound counterparts.

So why are all the Lateral Delt exercises on the site labeled as "Pull"?

Re: Deltoid (lateral): Push or Pull?

Posted: Thu Jul 18, 2013 5:18 am
by ephs
just think of the movement. do you push or pull the weight at the exercises?

Re: Deltoid (lateral): Push or Pull?

Posted: Thu Jul 18, 2013 5:53 am
by Dub
Lateral delts do lateral flexion. That's the main movement. Other than that it's role is mainly supportive. It's a stabilizers and helps to control the motor path. I say the same as robert, you are way overthinking this one. If you want to target the lateral deltoid, raise heavy things to your side. Other than that, let it just do it's job and don't worry about it.

It doesn't matter wether this kind of small, partial muscle is a pull or push muscle. It's supportive and has one isolated function on the side. Bigger muscles with more effect on performance are more important in the push/pull line of thinking (like pecs, triceps, lats, scapular muscles etc.)

Re: Deltoid (lateral): Push or Pull?

Posted: Thu Jul 18, 2013 9:00 am
by robertscott
exercises can't always be easily categorised into push or pull. Just put it in your routine wherever you feel it makes the most sense.

Re: Deltoid (lateral): Push or Pull?

Posted: Fri Jul 19, 2013 1:55 am
by Brak
My question isn't in regards to where to put it in my workout, but rather its correct labeling/nomenclature. One part of this site lists it as pull, another part lists it as push. So for the sake of correctness, knowledge, and intelligently communicating with others, I would like to know what it is.

Re: Deltoid (lateral): Push or Pull?

Posted: Fri Jul 19, 2013 5:22 am
by stuward
The deltoid is a muscle, not a movement. It can be used in pulling and pushing movements. In the case of the lateral delt, and upright row or raise is a pull, an overhead press is a push. The difference is where the weight is.

Re: Deltoid (lateral): Push or Pull?

Posted: Fri Jul 19, 2013 6:54 am
by robertscott
Brak wrote:So for the sake of correctness, knowledge, and intelligently communicating with others, I would like to know what it is.
do you often find yourself communicating to others whether medial delt exercises are push or pull?

Re: Deltoid (lateral): Push or Pull?

Posted: Fri Jul 19, 2013 2:59 pm
by Jungledoc
What difference does it make? This reminds me of arguments over what a color should be called.

Re: Deltoid (lateral): Push or Pull?

Posted: Sat Jul 20, 2013 11:17 pm
by Brak
robertscott wrote:
Brak wrote:So for the sake of correctness, knowledge, and intelligently communicating with others, I would like to know what it is.
do you often find yourself communicating to others whether medial delt exercises are push or pull?
LOL, no I don't - but I would like to be prepared if I do! lol

But one of the reasons (beside apparent inconsistencies like that aggregating my OCD) is that I am putting in my exercise chart if the exercise is a push or pull - so I would like it to be correct.

Re: Deltoid (lateral): Push or Pull?

Posted: Sat Jul 20, 2013 11:23 pm
by Brak
Stuward, I see what you are saying.
So when it comes to the Lateral Raise shouldn't it be a push - since you are moving the weight away from the middle of your body? Also the inverted movement to the Lateral Raise, the Iron Cross, is listed as a pull.
So either the Lateral Raise is labeled wrong, or the Iron Cross is labeled wrong, as inversion movements can't both be pushes or pulls.

Re: Deltoid (lateral): Push or Pull?

Posted: Sun Jul 21, 2013 4:30 pm
by Jungledoc
Your inconsistency bothers MY OCD! Are you classifying the elements of your routine according to movement (i.e., push-pull) or by the muscles? It doesn't make sense to me to try to have it both ways. If you are trying to make sure every little muscle is exercised, then it makes no difference whether the movement is push or pull.

A couple of years ago we got into a knock-down, drag-out fight over classifying DL as push or pull. It didn't make any sense then, either.

Re: Deltoid (lateral): Push or Pull?

Posted: Tue Jul 23, 2013 6:38 am
by Rik-Blades
Well...Muscles only contract, they cant push anyway!

Just my anal .02 :roll:

Re: Deltoid (lateral): Push or Pull?

Posted: Wed Jul 24, 2013 1:32 pm
by Jeannay
robertscott wrote:
Brak wrote:So for the sake of correctness, knowledge, and intelligently communicating with others, I would like to know what it is.
do you often find yourself communicating to others whether medial delt exercises are push or pull?

There is no medial head, there is lateral. the terms are not synonyms


You have to think in muscles not in movements. F.e. the latissimus pulls during pullups but pushes during dips(depression)

Re: Deltoid (lateral): Push or Pull?

Posted: Wed Jul 24, 2013 1:52 pm
by robertscott
Jeannay wrote: There is no medial head, there is lateral. the terms are not synonyms
meh. Least important distinction ever.