Locking out/Deep squat bad for knees?

Ask or answer questions, discuss and express your views

Moderators: Ironman, Jungledoc, darshana, stuward

Post Reply
excore
Rookie
Rookie
Posts: 41
Joined: Wed Mar 12, 2014 8:26 am

Locking out/Deep squat bad for knees?

Post by excore » Mon Apr 07, 2014 4:57 am

There was study that deep squats were bad for you knees but what I understand its not be true? Im also wondering if doing reps without locking knees healthier in long run? And are there ways to prevent future knee accidents? Personally never had problems with knees but curious how to deal if you have?

User avatar
stuward
moderator
moderator
Posts: 6639
Joined: Sat Mar 10, 2007 5:44 pm
Location: Halifax, NS

Re: Locking out/Deep squat bad for knees?

Post by stuward » Mon Apr 07, 2014 5:16 am

I'm not sure whether to take your questions seriously or not.

If you squat to the point where your calves touch your thighs, the knees may experience a prying effect. That only happens in people with extreme muscular development.

Other than that there is no harm.

There are a number of persistent myths about squats, summarized in this article.
http://www.biomechfit.com/2012/02/09/3- ... use-to-die" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Stu Ward
_________________
Let thy food be thy medicine, and thy medicine be thy food.~Hippocrates
Strength is the adaptation that leads to all other adaptations that you really care about - Charles Staley
_________________
Thanks TimD

tostig
Apprentice
Apprentice
Posts: 156
Joined: Sun Dec 23, 2007 9:14 pm

Re: Locking out/Deep squat bad for knees?

Post by tostig » Wed Apr 09, 2014 7:53 pm

When I was getting pain at the knees I was worried if I really was injuring them but I really wanted not to believe that. So I went on-line to look for why I was getting pain.

I ran across the Asian Squat. So I practiced it for a while at home for a few days before going back to the gym. It's easier to do the Asian Squat at the gym because of the rubber padded floor and you're also wearing soft rubber soled shoes - mine are minimalist running shoes. At home you're on either hardwood floor, tiled, vinyl or carpeting - not a lot of friction.

Now I figure the knee pain isn't due to any injury or damage. It's probably the soft tissue like ligaments or muscles getting adapted and stretched.

User avatar
Dub
Advanced Member
Advanced Member
Posts: 1142
Joined: Wed Sep 14, 2011 1:40 pm
Location: Lapland, Finland

Re: Locking out/Deep squat bad for knees?

Post by Dub » Thu Apr 10, 2014 3:42 am

The main reason why people think squatting deep is bad for your knees came from a study of Karl Klein from the 60's. This study showed that weightlifters showed more laxity in knee ligaments. And weightlifters are frequent deep squatters of course. To this day the results of this study have not been repeated. Quite the opposite actually. Several studies have shown that weightlifters have stable and even tight knee joint capsules. The main premise of the Klein study appears false, because ligament stress is actually bigger on larger knee angles.
Physical Preparedness Coach
Co-Owner of UniFit Oy.

Drake Van Steed
Rookie
Rookie
Posts: 40
Joined: Mon Feb 06, 2012 3:21 pm

Re: Locking out/Deep squat bad for knees?

Post by Drake Van Steed » Fri Apr 25, 2014 7:06 pm

Deep squats are bad for your back. When you go low your lower back rounds which puts an enormous amount of pressure on your lumbar spine and discs. If you're unlucky a disc will burst and youllbe in pain the rest of your life. If you're lucky you'll be ok. Is it worth it ? Are your legs really going to grow that much more? Oh yeah, nobody cares either if your legs are 25 inches round or 25.25 inches round. Save your back would be my advice.

Crow
Apprentice
Apprentice
Posts: 166
Joined: Sun Feb 17, 2013 11:14 am

Re: Locking out/Deep squat bad for knees?

Post by Crow » Sat Apr 26, 2014 1:52 am

Drake Van Steed wrote:Deep squats are bad for your back. When you go low your lower back rounds ... Save your back would be my advice.
I agree with saving your back with proper form... But I don`t understand your conclusion (I marked it), because nobody recommends to do it like that (or go so far down that the lower back rounds).

Yes, below parallel is the recommended depth... but only when someone can do it without rounding the lower back. If someone can`t do it correctly, he/she has to work on it before going below parallel (or ATG)...

User avatar
Dub
Advanced Member
Advanced Member
Posts: 1142
Joined: Wed Sep 14, 2011 1:40 pm
Location: Lapland, Finland

Re: Locking out/Deep squat bad for knees?

Post by Dub » Sat Apr 26, 2014 11:00 am

Drake Van Steed wrote:Deep squats are bad for your back. When you go low your lower back rounds which puts an enormous amount of pressure on your lumbar spine and discs. If you're unlucky a disc will burst and youllbe in pain the rest of your life. If you're lucky you'll be ok. Is it worth it ? Are your legs really going to grow that much more? Oh yeah, nobody cares either if your legs are 25 inches round or 25.25 inches round. Save your back would be my advice.
I think poorly performed squats are bad for you back. And knees. And hips. And quite frankly anything if you succeed to mess the form up real bad. The best way to refute your claim about deep squats being bad for your back is olympic lifters. They squat crazy deep with massive amounts of weights. Some will have back issues, yes. But it's not like everyone will be sent to early retirement because of blown discs.

Squatting is not bad for you, squatting with bad form is bad for you. I think that if one claims otherwise, one doesn't really understand how to coach people and how to adapt and modify ones programming with different people. Some people shouldn't squat and some people can't squat. Some can't squat deep. Some shouldn't squat deep. But it's not the squats fault. The squat is not dangerous if the exerciser is not making it dangerous.
Physical Preparedness Coach
Co-Owner of UniFit Oy.

robertscott
Deific Wizard of Sagacity
Deific Wizard of Sagacity
Posts: 4424
Joined: Thu Apr 24, 2008 7:20 pm

Re: Locking out/Deep squat bad for knees?

Post by robertscott » Sat Apr 26, 2014 11:33 am

Drake Van Steed wrote:Deep squats are bad for your back. When you go low your lower back rounds which puts an enormous amount of pressure on your lumbar spine and discs. If you're unlucky a disc will burst and youllbe in pain the rest of your life. If you're lucky you'll be ok. Is it worth it ? Are your legs really going to grow that much more? Oh yeah, nobody cares either if your legs are 25 inches round or 25.25 inches round. Save your back would be my advice.
*sigh*

These blanket statements really do get tiresome after a while.

Not everyone's back rounds when they squat low. You squat as deep as your flexibility allows. If that's all the way down, then squat all the way down. If it's just below parallel, then squat just below parallel. If you don't have the flexibility to squat even slightly below parallel, then work on your flexibility.

User avatar
KittenJ
Rookie
Rookie
Posts: 37
Joined: Tue Apr 29, 2014 8:41 am
Location: Maricopa, Az

Re: Locking out/Deep squat bad for knees?

Post by KittenJ » Tue Apr 29, 2014 11:08 am

robertscott wrote:
Drake Van Steed wrote:Deep squats are bad for your back. When you go low your lower back rounds which puts an enormous amount of pressure on your lumbar spine and discs. If you're unlucky a disc will burst and youllbe in pain the rest of your lif?e. If you're lucky you'll be ok. Is it worth it ? Are your legs really going to grow that much more? Oh yeah, nobody cares either if your legs are 25 inches round or 25.25 inches round. Save your back would be my advice.
*sigh*

These blanket statements really do get tiresome after a while.

Not everyone's back rounds when they squat low. You squat as deep as your flexibility allows. If that's all the way down, then squat all the way down. If it's just below parallel, then squat just below parallel. If you don't have the flexibility to squat even slightly below parallel, then work on your flexibility.

Everyone is saying to work on flexibility. What exercises/stretching would you do that would allow you to safely squat just below or to parallel?

KJ

robertscott
Deific Wizard of Sagacity
Deific Wizard of Sagacity
Posts: 4424
Joined: Thu Apr 24, 2008 7:20 pm

Re: Locking out/Deep squat bad for knees?

Post by robertscott » Tue Apr 29, 2014 12:37 pm

KittenJ wrote: Everyone is saying to work on flexibility. What exercises/stretching would you do that would allow you to safely squat just below or to parallel?

KJ
You could write a book on the topic (people already have, I assume), there's so much.

Check out the "So You Think You Can Squat" series of videos on elitefts.com. That'll tell you everything you need to know.

User avatar
KittenJ
Rookie
Rookie
Posts: 37
Joined: Tue Apr 29, 2014 8:41 am
Location: Maricopa, Az

Re: Locking out/Deep squat bad for knees?

Post by KittenJ » Tue May 06, 2014 10:52 am

Awesome. Thanks Robert
The sad truth is that excellence makes people nervous. -- Shana Alexander

Do not listen to those who weep and complain, for their disease is contagious.—Og Mandino

For my nonconformity, society whips me with it's displeasure. -Emerson

Post Reply