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Ironman
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Post by Ironman » Fri Jun 20, 2008 5:05 pm

If all they get is big delts from bench, they should try dumbbells, or maybe decline.

Smaller muscles get worked as hard as the main muscles in most exercises. The only reason to isolate at all is that arms tend to recover better. Or something like the gastrocs that don't get worked much in anything compound. That's why you do some isolation, but not that much. And it certainly doesn't mean you have to use machines much.

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Post by Chris_A » Fri Jun 20, 2008 5:20 pm

Ironman wrote:If all they get is big delts from bench, they should try dumbbells, or maybe decline.
Which will only blast your anterior delts even further. :eek:

What about the laterals and posteriors?
Smaller muscles get worked as hard as the main muscles in most exercises. The only reason to isolate at all is that arms tend to recover better. Or something like the gastrocs that don't get worked much in anything compound. That's why you do some isolation, but not that much. And it certainly doesn't mean you have to use machines much.
Tell that to someone with 12+ years of BB exeperience trying to round out symmetrically.

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Post by Matt Z » Fri Jun 20, 2008 5:50 pm

"What about the laterals and posteriors?" - Chris_A

Both can be worked with compound exercises. For lateral delts you can do Cleans, High Pulls, Upright Rows and Dumbbell Raises. For posterior delts you can do Rear Relt Rows.

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Post by Ironman » Fri Jun 20, 2008 6:04 pm

No actually, dumbbell press works the chest more than barbell. Also some people respond better to decline than flat. Some people just need a wider grip.

Laterals and posterior? What does that have to do with someones anteriors doing to much of the work during bench press? Lateral raises worked great for me. If I ever do isolate posterior, I use the rear delt row. But really they get worked just fine with the rest of my back.

12+ years and you're still working on it? Unless you're getting seriously huge you should have been done and maintaining long ago.

For rounding out and working on ratios, you do need a lot more isolation because you have to work some things a lot and some hardly at all. You still don't need to rely on machines so much.

There could be some arguments for machines in a precontest workout, if you're using gear and doing some real marathon sessions. But that's about it.

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Post by Chris_A » Fri Jun 20, 2008 6:23 pm

Ironman wrote:No actually, dumbbell press works the chest more than barbell. Also some people respond better to decline than flat. Some people just need a wider grip.
Yes, EMG studies show that Decline DB Presses stimulate the chest more than a BB press.
Laterals and posterior? What does that have to do with someones anteriors doing to much of the work during bench press?
I think you missed my point. The point is, you often see bench jockeys relying on compound movements that they love such as the benchpress which causes the anterior delts to explode, and then they ignore lagging parts such as lateral delts which can not be brought up with compound movements.
Lateral raises worked great for me. If I ever do isolate posterior, I use the rear delt row.
I like the rear delt row, but I prefer the bent lateral. Both of which are isolation moves and not compound moves.
But really they get worked just fine with the rest of my back.
Then you’re lucky. I work my back with heavier weights than my chest, and my posterior delts still lag. Maybe its different for everyone, but I’m one of the guys that needs extra posterior delt work.
For rounding out and working on ratios, you do need a lot more isolation because you have to work some things a lot and some hardly at all. You still don't need to rely on machines so much.
Actually, I don’t use machines any more since I work out at home now. But I do appreciate the perks a machine offers such as the ability to safely self spot, forced reps, eccentric work, etc. Machines are just one of the many valid tools you can use.

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Post by Ironman » Fri Jun 20, 2008 6:45 pm

Yea those mirror muscle workouts are silly. But that's young ones for you. They usually learn eventually. Of course there is 1 guy at the gym I go to who is about 35. Most of his upper body is kinda big, like just took roids a couple times big. His legs are smallish. But his arms have to at least 23" if not bigger. They are like pro bodybuilder big. He does the gunz workout of course. ! day I saw him do shurgs, and I was laughing so hard. He did 135, 155, 175. and he was grunting like it was hard. This guy can hardly do 175, and I do 355 for 10 reps. And I am totally the week bodybuilder stereotype. And I'm big, but nothing like this guy. His upper traps look about the same size as mine. F***ing hilarious!

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Post by Chris_A » Fri Jun 20, 2008 6:57 pm

I love shrugs! It’s my second heaviest lift, and I think it might be second only because I have to deadlift the weight before I can shrug it. I’m tempted to go to a commercial gym one day and load a Smith Machine in the low position with more weight than I can deadlift and see what happens. :evil:

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Post by Matt Z » Fri Jun 20, 2008 7:10 pm

Why would you consider Rear Delt Rows an isolation exercise? While they are an auxilary lift (as opposed to a basic one), they're still a multi-joint movement involving the upper back and elbow flexors as well as the rear delts.

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Post by Chris_A » Fri Jun 20, 2008 7:25 pm

Matt Z wrote:Why would you consider Rear Delt Rows an isolation exercise? While they are an auxilary lift (as opposed to a basic one), they're still a multi-joint movement involving the upper back and elbow flexors as well as the rear delts.
True. Auxiliary is more exact. I think of that move with a DB as targetting the posterior delt which is why I use it, but it is technically a compound movement.

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Post by pdellorto » Sat Jun 21, 2008 12:49 am

I shouldn't brush my teeth or wash my hair unless I care about the appearance of my muscles?

That'll save me some more time in the morning before work, that's for sure.

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Post by Ironman » Sat Jun 21, 2008 12:27 pm

I totally missed that post. Ok, I can see the "why even brush your hair" part. The rest of it is hygiene. You should at least be somewhat clean.

I know people who don't care what they look like. They are still clean though. Of course I have seen some rednecks who aren't to big bathing and such.

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Post by Chris_A » Sat Jun 21, 2008 12:48 pm

pdellorto wrote:I shouldn't brush my teeth or wash my hair unless I care about the appearance of my muscles?
No, not what I said or the point.
unless I care about MY appearance.
Fixed.

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Post by Chris_A » Sat Jun 21, 2008 12:48 pm

Ironman wrote:The rest of it is hygiene. You should at least be somewhat clean.
I knew someone would say that. :grin:

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Post by Matt Z » Sat Jun 21, 2008 2:33 pm

Actually, now that you mension it, I don't brush my hair. If you keep it short enough you don't have to.

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Post by Chris_A » Sat Jun 21, 2008 10:38 pm

Matt Z wrote:Actually, now that you mension it, I don't brush my hair. If you keep it short enough you don't have to.
But you do cut it and keep it trimmed. :grin:

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