An Ironic Post

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tostig
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Post by tostig » Mon Jul 14, 2008 10:42 am

Matt Z wrote:"2) I've learned about form from the internet and this post but have also learned not to comment to other people in the gym because (ironically) as I've learned from reading these posts, if you look fat, skinny or not perfect, people will look down on your opinion." - tostig

I think that's how most clients pick personal trainers. They find a trainer they think is good looking and figure he/she must know how to workout.
You know that brain teaser about a small town with two barbers? One barber is neatly groomed, his shop is spotlessly clean. The other barber is a mess; hair scruffy, shop unclean. Which barber would you go to?

So which trainer would you like to be with? The sveltly built one or the out-of-shape one?


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Post by KPj » Mon Jul 14, 2008 10:50 am

There's a trainer in my gym who's fat. It baffles me that he gets clients, but he does. He's not even fat in a "i'm doing a bulking phase" (for 2years) sense. He's just fat.

There's also a juiced up Bodybuilder, about 5'5, roughly 250lbs, and ripped. He's threatening to get qualified as a personal trainer - I wonder if he would look 'too' convincing? I reckon he would scare a lot of potential clients away...

KPj

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Post by tostig » Mon Jul 14, 2008 12:49 pm

KPj wrote:There's a trainer in my gym who's fat. It baffles me that he gets clients, but he does. He's not even fat in a "i'm doing a bulking phase" (for 2years) sense. He's just fat....KPj
Hence the irony. Maybe he's an acamedic ace graduating at the top of his kinesiolgoy class with all the studying he's done. And he's been extremely busy helping his own clients and not having the adequate time (like alot of us these days) to look after himself.

He's the messy barber, the successful one who can't cut his own hair but grooming is competitor.

He's not the rich broker from the book "Where are the Clients' Yaughts?" He makes money by earning it instead of creaming off his investors' money until they are broke.

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Post by Matt Z » Mon Jul 14, 2008 7:33 pm

"You know that brain teaser about a small town with two barbers? One barber is neatly groomed, his shop is spotlessly clean. The other barber is a mess; hair scruffy, shop unclean. Which barber would you go to?" - tostig

I see your point. However, it's no great achievement for a 19 year old with good genetics and a halfway decent diet to look lean and vaugely athletic. It's kind of like going to someone who's been rail thin his whole life and asking for weight loss advice.

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Post by pdellorto » Mon Jul 14, 2008 8:42 pm

The thing is, if a person who is supposedly trained in diet and exercise cannot make a basic effort to be presentable, why follow them?

An out-of-shape trainer says to me "I don't know enough to get some basic fitness myself" and a fat one says "I don't know or care enough to put some effort into my diet." If someone is good despite this, they should have a reputation and be able to show me some clients with results. If I see a fat, out-of-shape trainer with clients who are strong and lean, that's going to make me want to talk to them. But if you can't show results on yourself, you better be able to show me results on clients.

I won't ignore good advice from someone based on their appearance, but let's face it, it's not that hard to make an effort. The ones who make an effort will be easy to pick out...on their own merits and by those of their clients.


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Post by Jungledoc » Mon Jul 14, 2008 10:48 pm

Makes me think of smoking doctors who advise their patients to quit! I had a preceptor in med school who smoked cigs, cigars and pipes, and chewed as well. He'd actually say to patients "I love tobacco in all forms, but you should really stop smoking." Needless to say, not many of his patients seemed to quit.

On the other hand, I've had patients whom I was advising to stop smoking ask me "have you ever smoked? No? Then you can't know how hard it is." To which I'd reply, "yeah, but I've watched enough people die of emphysema or lung or throat cancer to know how important it is."

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Post by KPj » Tue Jul 15, 2008 4:04 am

tostig wrote: Hence the irony. Maybe he's an acamedic ace
A good point. Not the case in this example, though. I agree with Peter. It says he's either too lazy or doesn't know any better. I mean, he still eats, the least he could do is eat properly.

If he has a degree in kinesiology, though, then he definitely doesn't apply it. The stuff I've seen him make his clients do is enough for a long post in the pet peeves thread!

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Post by ellerbus » Tue Jul 15, 2008 7:48 pm

http://drsquat.com/articles/weenie.html

It's ironic how funny I found this article about Gym Weenie's, and at the same time still use the Squat Rack for Barbell Curls ... but in my defense at 6 am there's not too many squatters ... and besides me ... I've only seen 2 other guys ever using the Squat Racks?!

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Post by brook011 » Tue Jul 15, 2008 11:58 pm

ellerbus wrote:http://drsquat.com/articles/weenie.html

It's ironic how funny I found this article about Gym Weenie's, and at the same time still use the Squat Rack for Barbell Curls ... but in my defense at 6 am there's not too many squatters ... and besides me ... I've only seen 2 other guys ever using the Squat Racks?!

46) You get upset when people are squatting in the power rack, which prevents you from doing your bicep curls.

loved that one haha. I was at the gym today and this guy looked frustrated that I was using the power rack for a good 15-20mins doing my squat and deadlifts today. I looked around and saw at least 5 people doing bicep curls of some modification or another. "out of maybe 9 people lifting"

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Post by KPj » Wed Jul 16, 2008 3:27 am

I enjoyed reading that article :lol: All of it is so true.

The 'Superslow' thing is classic. Can't believe people STILL think there's only one way only to do a lift, and that's 'slow'.


About 6months or so ago, I was doing speed deadlifts. A trainer, who is one of the worse kinds i.e. anything other than what he thinks is just wrong, full stop. I get on well with him, but it's really just out of politeness. Anyway, I was doing speed deadlifts with about 45% of my 1RM. He came up and started talking to me between sets (they don't seem to actually DO anything, just float about chat). I was doing 10 sets of 2. After about the 3rd set, he said "that's good, but could you do that with a 4-2-4 tempo"?

* crickets chirping *

If I had it in me to be more of an a$$hole, I would of just ignored it. But I decided to match is smart a$$ tone, and multiply it by about 100.

"actually, I could do atleast double that with a 4-2-4 tempo"

"i'll believe that when I see it".

So i started working up to a single of about 90%. Stupidly, I actually changed my work out because of his comment. Anyway, when it came to the 90%, which I was very comfortable with, I just grinded it out for longer than usual, held lock out for 2 seconds, and lowered it as slowly as I could.

He just said "yes, very good" and walked away. He's barely spoke to me since... (woohoo)

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Post by tostig » Wed Jul 16, 2008 1:55 pm

KPj wrote:...The 'Superslow' thing is classic. Can't believe people STILL think there's only one way only to do a lift, and that's 'slow'. ...
KPj
Can you explain that one? On several occassions, TV interviews, instructional DVDs, gym instructions posted say to do exercises slowly with your muscles tensed all the way and about 4 seconds for the entire cycle (up and down).

The explanation against fast was that the movement would no more than just momentum and could be damaging if you can't control it at the end.

An additional reason I do it slowly is to gauge my form carefully all the way so I don't throw my back out.

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Post by Chris_A » Wed Jul 16, 2008 4:48 pm

In the powerlifting world, they also train for explosive power. You lower the weight and then push/pull through the exercise as fast as possible. This is often done for sport specific training as well as to help you break through a sticking point in your heavy lifts. It’s called Plyometrics.

Not to mention a lot of the Olympic lifts are fast and explosive movements such as the Clean and Jerk.

Then there is Static Contraction Training where you don’t move at all.

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Post by Ironman » Thu Jul 17, 2008 12:45 am

Well, I fit the weenie list number 1 (gloves) and number 62 (squat pad). That's not bad for a bodybuilder though.

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Post by pdellorto » Thu Jul 17, 2008 1:25 am

I fit #1, too - it's gloves or nothing, and nothing sure sucks on rack pulls and kipping pullups. I reject the "wimp" argument on that one, because I also use gloves when I trade punches with people...

...and #6. Yeah, no socks. Or shoes. And I'm as white as a ghost.

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Post by KPj » Thu Jul 17, 2008 3:19 am

tostig wrote: Can you explain that one? On several occassions, TV interviews, instructional DVDs, gym instructions posted say to do exercises slowly with your muscles tensed all the way and about 4 seconds for the entire cycle (up and down).

The explanation against fast was that the movement would no more than just momentum and could be damaging if you can't control it at the end.

An additional reason I do it slowly is to gauge my form carefully all the way so I don't throw my back out.
Bear in mind my complaint was that there was still a lot of people that thought lifting slow was the 'only way to lift'. So i'm not saying you should lift explosively all the time. Most TV programs and mainstream exercise DVD's give really bad advice though. As a rule of thumb, if anyone ever claims there is one way and one way only to do something, they're probably full of crap... In the exercise world, there aren't many 'black and white' statements, everything depends on something.

In my example, I knew the trainer didn't know the difference between bar speed and lifting speed. For example, you just can't (oops, blanket statement!) lift maximal weights without attempting to lift as fast as possible, however, if it is a maximal weight (>90% 1RM), then even though your TRYING to lift really fast, the bar will move very slow. In other words, I was just being a smart a$$. I know what he was referring to, but he clearly doesn't understand. His statement should of refered to people who don't want to train hard and will use light weights and lift them recklessly - fast, but not control, and not with the actual intention to lift 'explosively'. If he said it in that context, I would have agreed. But trying to criticise me for lifting fast, when I was doing "SPEED deadlifts", was just bizarre.

Also, lifting slow to get used to form is great example of when lifting slow is a good tool, and I do that myself. However, in accordance with my goals (strength), I lift 'explosively', but 'controlled'. You create more force if you lift fast. What do you think creates more force, for example, jogging, or sprinting? It's common sense, really, but that doesn't mean everyone should sprint. It depends on your goals, lot's of people jog for lot's of different (and valid) reasons.

Here's an interesting read on 'lifting fast'
http://www.t-nation.com/article/bodybui ... to_big&cr=

KPj


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