Selling our soul

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nygmen
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Post by nygmen » Wed Oct 08, 2008 9:02 am

In regards to Sarah, I also feel that the leaders of America should be and sound educated, and be able to have an honest conversation with the leaders of the rest of the world without saying “gosh darn it,” and other “trailer park” phrases. Actually talking about something, rather than 400 words about nothing skirting the issue and question would be a good place to start for both her and McDonald’s.

As someone who works with “small business” everyday damn day, please don’t buy into McDonald’s Fuzzy Math. Nobama isn’t going to crush them. But also the 5,000 health care credit argument of Nobama is misleading also. As long as the credit is indexed to increase as healthcare costs increase the net effect will remain a zero tax adjustment to the average tax payer.

(That’s right the 5,000 as it is will end up basically a zero net effect on your taxes over the 4 years of McCain “leadership”. Your insurance will no longer be section 125 and you will have to pay tax on it as income. (STATE INCOME TAX INCLUDED, WITH NO CREDITS THERE!)But the increase in what you owe the government will be offset by the credit. BUT it is a refundable credit, which every single parent knows, are the best of credits, SO IN RARE CASES PEOPLE WILL GET CASH FOR IT. If healthcare costs remain stagnant, fat chance, but if they do, the credit isn’t a bad idea on the surface. But it is only a finger in the dike, not a long term solution.)

As far as last night’s debate:

Obama at least had some specific examples, and addressed education, but even though he kept his composure he didn’t really establish anything other than cool under pressure. And his plans, while I tend to agree with most, are expensive and risky on some levels. This country needs a tax increase right now and it needs a solid foreign policy, not a cowboy that is going to get all angry and think he is the man and just bomb and invade everyone that disagrees with him. (I liked the McCain of 2000, not the new McCain that changes his whole personality with each new pole that comes out.)

McCain needs to stop kissing everyone’s a$$. “My friends.” Was used WAY too much last night, and it makes me not want to be his friend. If you disagree with me, which he would, be strong enough to have a civil conversation about it, not kiss my a$$ with your first sentence and then spit in my face with your next sentence. He, like Palin is apposed to offering us specific examples of how they will “fix” and “change” America. They would rather try and bash the moral fabric of their opponent. When will America get sick of this “highschool” approach and vote for the better leader, not the better insulter?

All in all, IMO they are both awful, but I hope to god that they are both better than the group of fools leading us now.

Sorry for the Novel

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ellerbus
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Post by ellerbus » Wed Oct 08, 2008 11:16 am

nygmen wrote:When will America get sick of this “highschool” approach and vote for the better leader, not the better insulter?
Not anytime soon in my opinion ... I think that is what the majority of folks are looking for. I compare the political insults to reality TV. Reality TV is trash with no entertainment value. So why air them, well that's simple the profit margin is higher on reality TV ... no crazy actor payments, no writers, coupled with high ratings equals higher advertising revenue or profits. I think the insults are the only way a politician is going to get average joe american to hear his/her name is by insulting the other candidate. Even commentators after a debate only seem interested in the "zingers".

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Post by TimD » Wed Oct 08, 2008 11:22 am

IMHO, the Dems got the ticketbackward. Should be Biden/Obama. Been following Joe for years, and although I'm center right, I'd pick him over either of the two running. Too bad the media pushed the two "rock stars" (Hillary and Obama) during the primaries. As to the republicans, well, that party got hijacked some years back I liked the talk some weeks back of a Bloomberg/Hagle ticket running as independents.
Tim

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Post by ironmaiden708 » Wed Oct 08, 2008 10:20 pm

IMHO, the Dems got the ticketbackward. Should be Biden/Obama. Been following Joe for years, and although I'm center right, I'd pick him over either of the two running. Too bad the media pushed the two "rock stars" (Hillary and Obama) during the primaries. As to the republicans, well, that party got hijacked some years back I liked the talk some weeks back of a Bloomberg/Hagle ticket running as independents.

I don't think they could win with Biden as the front runner. From what I have read he appears to be gaffe striken at times and in general doesn't have the charisma or charm of Obama. I'm pretty sure Mccain would also be able to find alot more things about Biden than Obama that would ruin thier chances of getting back the house, BUT at the same time I think the only reason the polls are so close is because of ignorant hardore/mindless republicans and bigots. Obama has nearly a clean record there were 2 "major" incidents. His radicalist pastor and Ayers who when Obama was 7-8 years old was commiting terrorist acts within the country.

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Post by nygmen » Wed Oct 08, 2008 10:36 pm

ironmaiden708 wrote: I don't think they could win with Biden as the front runner. From what I have read he appears to be gaffe striken at times and in general doesn't have the charisma or charm of Obama. I'm pretty sure Mccain would also be able to find alot more things about Biden than Obama that would ruin thier chances of getting back the house, BUT at the same time I think the only reason the polls are so close is because of ignorant hardore/mindless republicans and bigots. Obama has nearly a clean record there were 2 "major" incidents. His radicalist pastor and Ayers who when Obama was 7-8 years old was commiting terrorist acts within the country.
I think the poles are also skewed by the fact a lot of Americans, behind closed doors and on anonymous telephone poles are racist, and pick McCain because he isn’t black. But I agree with you on the Biden issues and such.

My money is on McCain winning by a decent margin mainly through racism alone. Come crunch time, America is still living “Remember the Titians” without the touching football success mixed in.

Let me go on record as I will be happy to be wrong on this one, please let me be wrong.

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Post by ellerbus » Thu Oct 09, 2008 8:28 am

ellerbus wrote:The debt we have incurred over the last 8 years is astonishing, especially since we had a surplus in '99.

http://www.brillig.com/debt_clock/
funny not so funny short article about how the debt clock in NY ran out of numbers

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/stor ... d=95545773

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Post by hoosegow » Thu Oct 09, 2008 12:15 pm

It is foolish to think Obama is the better choice than McCain.

It is foolish to to think McCain is a better choice than Obama.

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Post by TheHeb » Thu Oct 09, 2008 12:35 pm

hoosegow wrote:It is foolish to think Obama is the better choice than McCain.

It is foolish to to think McCain is a better choice than Obama.
How so?

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Post by ironmaiden708 » Thu Oct 09, 2008 12:47 pm

hoosegow wrote:It is foolish to think Obama is the better choice than McCain.

It is foolish to to think McCain is a better choice than Obama.
Would you care to explain the logic behind that?

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Post by jeffrerr » Thu Oct 09, 2008 3:02 pm

He's using politics guys, confuse the masses then pummel them with too much info until the only thing they remember is who got in with the last zniger in the last debate! Worked for Dubya!

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Post by hoosegow » Thu Oct 09, 2008 4:27 pm

That was my cryptic way of saying that there isn't a good choice. In the past I have always voted for the candidate that scared me the least. These two both scare the hell out of me. I think both of them will lead us down the path of socialism. Obama will do it quicker, but McCain will take us down the same path while continuing to make the same mistakes we have made in the path. At least with Obama we know we are going down the path of socialism. With McCain, he will sneak it up on us which will probably placate all the sheep. We will be led to slaughter with a smile on our face.

Hell, the other night McCain was a proponent of more regulating of the private sector and Obama was a proponent of cutting taxes. I couldn't tell who the Repulsivican was and who the Demoncrat was.

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Post by TheHeb » Thu Oct 09, 2008 4:49 pm

hoosegow wrote:That was my cryptic way of saying that there isn't a good choice. In the past I have always voted for the candidate that scared me the least. These two both scare the hell out of me. I think both of them will lead us down the path of socialism. Obama will do it quicker, but McCain will take us down the same path while continuing to make the same mistakes we have made in the path. At least with Obama we know we are going down the path of socialism. With McCain, he will sneak it up on us which will probably placate all the sheep. We will be led to slaughter with a smile on our face.

Hell, the other night McCain was a proponent of more regulating of the private sector and Obama was a proponent of cutting taxes. I couldn't tell who the Repulsivican was and who the Demoncrat was.
You're kind of vague about what you mean by "socialism," and your argument assumes that "socialism" is bad.

But still, there are many things on which they differ. You could choose a candidate based on those. That could include the Iraq War, or the war on terrorism, for example.

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Post by ironmaiden708 » Thu Oct 09, 2008 5:01 pm

I'm terrified by the Mccain/Palin ticket. She's rallying the biggest republican freaks that exist, they're saying things like "kill [Obama]." Who in their right mind would say things like that? There were insinuations made by Palin that Obama deals with terrorist which is probably what sparked these freaks to come out and rally. I see something wrong with that.

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Post by ellerbus » Thu Oct 09, 2008 9:24 pm

hoosegow wrote:It is foolish to think Obama is the better choice than McCain.

It is foolish to to think McCain is a better choice than Obama.
Makes sense to me.

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Post by tyler » Fri Oct 10, 2008 2:38 pm

Maybe we need to try socialism. Don't most of the european countries who are more socialist have a better standard of living than most americans? And free healthcare? Oh...and what was really screwed up is right after the bailout, AIG execs went and spent around $400,000 at some hotel over a weekend, golfing and probably stuffing their faces with dinners that cost as much as a house payment. Makes me sick. In my opinion those idiots need to do some jailtime after that crap

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