Selling our soul

[nygmen]

When we come out of it, we will be better off and more stable.

This is misleading... In the 30's the government took us out of depression, just like you don't want to happen.

And in that senerio more stable = super poor. The only countries left with any money or power would be oil rich nations. IE not the USA. Is that honestly a better situation?

That would be Iran, Russia and some South American countries ruling the world. Is that better than some government investment & assistance? No way.

[ironmaiden708]

I believe the reason the gov't is pouring money into the market is because they are betting on the fact then when the stocks rebound they will have a large surplus of money which can help eliminate apart of the national debt.

[hoosegow]

Lemmings. I better stop, but this has been fun. I will say that I never have and will never expect anyone to bail my ass out of trouble nor will I ever rely on another person for my success.

[tyler]

I don't think there's anything wrong with accepting help from time to time. It's only natural for humans to rely on others for things...I know I stirred some controversy with my socialism comment...but no matter how self-reliant we try to be, we need others in our lives. And for some people, its the system itself that keeps them held back, whether its being born in complete poverty with little chance for escape or born with parents that don't give a damn about them. How fair is it to say they shouldn't get a helping hand from time to time? And yes, some will abuse the system...but should those who actually need help be punished because there are freeloaders?

On a different note...did you hear how McCain had to defend Barack from his own supporters (McCains)? I don't know whether to hold up McCain in high respect after that...or hate him because of the type of people that support him. They referred to Obama as an Arab and someone who is a terrorist. Hah. I'm sure most republicans are happy to hear that.

[Matt Z]

Do you honestly think that all McCain supporters are racist, ignorant hillbillys?

[ellerbus]

On a different note...did you hear how McCain had to defend Barack from his own supporters (McCains)? I don't know whether to hold up McCain in high respect after that...or hate him because of the type of people that support him. They referred to Obama as an Arab and someone who is a terrorist. Hah. I'm sure most republicans are happy to hear that.

I'm glad he defended him instead of gloss over the issue as many politicians would. Those idiots deserved to be set straight. I had a good friend during 9/11 who was a Hindu, and ignorant folks such as these idiots would make similar remarks when we went for lunch. These ignorant jackasses also put a friend of his in the hospital ... again a Hindu.

[nygmen]

Do you honestly think that all McCain supporters are racist, ignorant hillbillys?

Only the supporters from Texas... (HA HA. Just kidding. I swear i'm just fooling around.)

I believe the reason the gov't is pouring money into the market is because they are betting on the fact then when the stocks rebound they will have a large surplus of money which can help eliminate apart of the national debt

Yes, but if you notice the market didn't rebound until the rest of the world pledged loans. (Sort of funny to me, but it makes perfect sense when my boss explained it to me.) The government is in a position to make a ton of money, and i think that is why they choose the path they did, and not the same path as the EU. It could actually end up being a win-win, but some butthead politician will ruin that.

I know I stirred some controversy with my socialism comment...

I would like to thank you for it too.

Lemmings. I better stop, but this has been fun. I will say that I never have and will never expect anyone to bail my ass out of trouble nor will I ever rely on another person for my success.

Against my better judgment I'm going to respond to this…

1) Thanks for calling me a Lemming, I gripped and ripped a PR today. 30lbs more than my prior.
2) I assume by your comments you're young, like still in high school young.
3) You will never be very successful without help from others. Life is not American Idol. You will need help, you will need advice, and I advise you stop letting your Hubris cut off your nose to spite your face. Passion is a wonderful thing to have, but be weary of taking it to extremes.
4) NONE of these companies expected anyone to bail them out. High reward only comes with high risk. These banks & mortgage companies expected the former. They let it ride, and rolled snake eyes. Such is life, but in this situation you cannot sit back and let the ENTIRE world suffer for the mistakes of a few fools. We're talking a total shift in global power to nations we used to be in a "cold" war with. We're talking millions of people STARVING to death, not just in developing nations, but on the sidewalk down the street from your house, it will be the guy that works 80 hours a week now, not the "welfare queens" I assume you're thinking of. I am not happy about the bailout, rather opposed to it, but I understand its necessity, and have the ability to see the good that could and will become of it.
5) Honestly if I am a lemming, you are also. Your just running off a cliff that is so far to the right, we don't even live in the same universe. But I'm pretty sure the sky in mine is blue, and militancy isn't a normal mode of thought, because panic is neither fun nor necessary.

I'm sorry if this angers you, or I insulted you, but the Lemming comment drew a line.

[TimD]

IRT the McCain defending Obama thing. I think it is terribly honorable. I just wish he would denounce and not support all that hoopla about "who is Obama, really"" crap the Rove crowd is coming out with. If he did that, I would see the 2000 McCain is really back, and I would vote for him. I loved it when he used to stick his thumb in the eye of the Republican party, in particular, the right wing extremists that hijacked the party, but in the past months, he seems to be following the "new" party lines. I'm with Jim Webb of my State, Va, ; a Repulican that got sick of the hijack, and is now a "blue dog" Demo.
Tim

[tyler]

Do you honestly think that all McCain supporters are racist, ignorant hillbillys?

No...but I do believe there is more than I would have thought say, 5 years ago. But let me say this- I worked at a hotel which was owned by Indians (from India- not native americans) and they were lumped in as middle eastern by most (myself included at first, for a lot of indians look middle eastern). But the thing is- I can't begin to count the number of people who would make dumb remarks about them or middle eastern people in general when I worked there. And it wasn't the somewhat wrong but funny type of stuff that I'd joke with my boss about...you know, things you can say to a friend whose black or Asian and are able to get away with cause they know you're just playing around. Pretty damn insulting things people say...and they think that just cause I'm a white guy that I go along with it and think exactly as they do. But one thing I know for sure- I don't think the dumb hillbilly racists are the ones to worry about this day in age. I think the ones that are in positions of power...such as Palin...as much more dangerous than ever. It's good to know that McCain put his own foot down- even as he recieved boos from his own supporters. I agree with TimD- McCain used to be a symbol for standing against the Status Quo. Standing up against bush when he practically wanted to toss out the Geneva Conventions. Then he started to become part of the status quo. Its good too know that even if he wins and becomes president (I am an obama supporter) that maybe it won't be all bad- as there is glimpses of goodness with John McCain as well. Hah- I'm sure most would disagree, but I think they're both strong choices. They've just made bad decisions with the way they've run their campaigns.

[Ironman]

Do you honestly think that all McCain supporters are racist, ignorant hillbillys?

I'm sure nobody thinks that. But there are a good chunk of them that are like that.

But I am very troubled by a group that considers intelligent people "elitist". Even if they are when was the last time you turned down an elite doctor and had some guy down the street who works a factory or something preform a medical procedure on you?

Or that consider people who are very well educated to be "overeducated". I am saddened that I have even heard that word.

There is a cleaning lady at my company who is very nice. She isn't real smart and doesn't have much in the way of education. Does that mean she can rule the free world?

Then there are all the ones who would use their religion to shape policy. That is scary.

And don't even get me started about what most of these people think about atheists.

Now I am sure there are plenty of nice sensible people that are still voting that way. But they don't seem to have any power int he party anymore.

[jeffrerr]

[quote="Ironman"] And don't even get me started about what most of these people think about atheists. [quote]

In the words of Bobby 'The Waterboy' Boucher's mother "Atheists are the Devil!"

But really I thought I was an atheist for a long until I realised I was an agnostic with a bent against people who tell me what to think! I don't have a religion and I am comfortable with that, why can't they be comfortable about that? If I want to burn in eternal hell fire that's my choice, I don't need to be 'saved' from anything thanks, it's not like I'm refusing a blood transfusion because of my faith or making my wife cover herself up because my fellow followers can't look at woman without getting a hard on! I use those previous 2 comments to invoke a bit of angst towards me so I can explain that I'm actually fine with any religion doing what ever they want in their congregation/church/place of worship/etc. but don't bring it to my door, don't talk to me about it on the bus/train/plane when I ask you not to and don't make it part of running of my country (Australia) thank you very much! I have don't have tolerance of any religion, because the word tolerance means I have a problem with it but I can tolerate it! I have acceptance for most religions (scientology is one I can't get my head around!) and their place in peoples lives, they just don't play any part in mine at this point. My parent's decided I should have the option to chose a religion for myself and I've not yet come across one where the Pros and Cons are equally weighted so I chose to let others believe whatever they like, as long as they give me the same respect! If you want to tell me all about how great everything would be if I was X religion I'll deliberately go and find reasons NOT to convert and then have a 'discussion' (read heated argument) with you so you'll think again next time you want to bring the subject up, that's a defence mechanism I've made up, trust me it works like 99% of the time!

Anyway that was a pointlessly long rant to tell you guys that I am an agnostic with a few atheist tendencies, but I am happy for you in what ever religion you, your family and friends have chosen to believe and faith in, just don't try to get me in on it!


Oh and I think the bail out will sort itself out until, as previously mentioned, a politician messes it all up!

Cheers,

John

[ironmaiden708]

Do you honestly think that all McCain supporters are racist, ignorant hillbillys?

Well take the 25% approval rating of bush and transfer all those people over to mcain. Now you have a base of morons who don't know anything about politics other than believe that Obama is an arab. Assuming that his popularity is at 43% there is a leftover of 18% that don't like bush but are voting for mccain. Those would consist of people who truely believe Mccain policies are better for whatever reason, even though he doesn't have a solid stance on some important issues since since he tends to conform his stances based on the current geopolitical situation (ECONOMY). Then in that group would consist of racists, and funny thing the states he's grabbed on to at the current time are all southern/midwestern which would tend to have a higher concentration of hicks.

But I am very troubled by a group that considers intelligent people "elitist". Even if they are when was the last time you turned down an elite doctor and had some guy down the street who works a factory or something preform a medical procedure on you?

I never understood that whole elitist crap. Heres a quick version I found on wikipedia. "Elitism is the belief or attitude that those individuals who are considered members of the elite — a select group of people with outstanding personal abilities, intellect, wealth, specialized training or experience, or other distinctive attributes." So what I'm gathering from that is they are reffering to people with an above average education which would basically be attending college and have a decent career. Any lawyers, doctors, etc. What about other careers, would teachers be elitist? How about a musician? A Dentist? I guess there are a lot of elitist out there but there doesn't appear to be a clear cut way of defining them & I bet if these people saw one of these 'elitist' they wouldn't even know it. When I think of elitist, I think of another class of society that give a cold shoulder to everyone who doesn't fit into that crowd. I just don't see that being the case, by definition they are everywhere. Why isn't John Mccain considered an elitist, he's a freakin senator whos been in politics for years and is filthy rich. Is it becasue he's a republican? It all makes no sense to me.

[ellerbus]

Do you honestly think that all McCain supporters are racist, ignorant hillbillys?

Well take the 25% approval rating of bush and transfer all those people over to mcain. Now you have a base of morons who don't know anything about politics other than believe that Obama is an arab. Assuming that his popularity is at 43% there is a leftover of 18% that don't like bush but are voting for mccain. Those would consist of people who truely believe Mccain policies are better for whatever reason, even though he doesn't have a solid stance on some important issues since since he tends to conform his stances based on the current geopolitical situation (ECONOMY). Then in that group would consist of racists, and funny thing the states he's grabbed on to at the current time are all southern/midwestern which would tend to have a higher concentration of hicks.

So if moronic republicans, hicks, and racists are voting for McCain .. does that mean the elitists are voting for Obama, and everyone else is voting for Cynthia McKinney?

[ironmaiden708]

So if moronic republicans, hicks, and racists are voting for McCain

Racist hicks are the moronic republicans, of course saying racist hicks would be making a stereotype about all racists, racist "elitist", racist democrats, racist anybody, but they are all under the class of morons. If you recall what I wrote there are people who truely believe McCain policies are better.

I know you can argue that their are many people voting blindly for Obama just because he's a Democrat but it's for a different reason other than 'he's an arab' 'he's black' 'terrorist'. The general census is there are idiotic voters out there who vote blindly for democrats as well. Then you have people who don't want another 4-8 years of bush which that is a wildly beleived theory that Mccain won't be the change that the US needs. Then you have people who look at his VP pick in disgust and are concerned of what happens if Mccain suddenly croaks and Palin has to take over who's only foreign policy experiance is that Russia is next to Alaska. Then there is the scandals (Fannie Mae), lousy campaign (rehash of dead and buried issues (ex Wright and Ayers)), lousy job in the debates (THAT ONE) with being professional and being the stronger candidate. His economic policies and health care plan are frowned upon by many analysts. Change in stances "I vote for deregulation!" Stock market plunges 500+ "We must increase regulation!" Doesn't look good...

does that mean the elitists are voting for Obama

Where did I say that? Your insinuating thats what I meant. Republicans when talking about hardcore liberals like to use the phrase 'elitist' at rallies and in their stump speeches. Elitist means NOTHING to me, they are everywhere by definition.

Cynthia McKinney

Nope ralph nader whose only reason for running is to steal votes from the democratic party.

Sorry I was in a rush this morning when I made that rant. So I wanted to clear some things up and I am dissapointed in myself for using sterotypes, shame on me

[ellerbus]

Sorry I was in a rush this morning when I made that rant. So I wanted to clear some things up and I am dissapointed in myself for using sterotypes, shame on me

It is very difficult NOT to generalize or make stereotypes during election times since that's how most of the media categorizes information, ie) he's up with white / women voters, or he needs to get more of the retiree voters etc. My intent was to make a sarcastic funny ha-ha remark about what you were stating .. not so much to get on your case personally. My sarcasm can be too sarcastic at times.

( on another note ) Personally, I think the candidate who spends the most money on marketing will win the election.

2008 (to date)
- McCain ($194M spent, $230M raised)
- Obama ($377M spent, $454M raised)
-- so far Obama has outpsent McCain by $183M

2004
- Bush ($269M)
- Kerry ($234M)
-- Bush won spent $25M more

2000
- Bush ($95M)
- Gore ($48M)
-- Bush won, spent $47M more

1996
- Clinton ($43M)
- Dole ($44M)
-- Clinton won, spent $1M less ( oops, I'm wrong, ok so I now need $5M to conduct a historical study )

1992 - (couldn't find any information)