Random crap

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Matt Z
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Re: Random crap

Post by Matt Z » Fri Feb 22, 2013 8:11 pm

"i think only the common hunter shotguns are allowed, which are obviously muzzleloaders. no shotguns like benelli m4 or so are allowed." - ephs

Really? Muzzle-loading rifles are common hunting weapons here in the US (most states have special muzzleloader hunting seasons), but muzzle-loading shotguns aren't common at all. The most common hunting shotguns are pumps, semi-autos, side-by-sides and over-unders.

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Re: Random crap

Post by Jungledoc » Sun Feb 24, 2013 10:09 am

ephs wrote:i think only the common hunter shotguns are allowed, which are obviously muzzleloaders. no shotguns like benelli m4 or so are allowed.
Common hunters use muzzle loading shotguns?

Matt, I'm not sure that ephs is the right guy to ask!
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Re: Random crap

Post by stuward » Sun Feb 24, 2013 1:12 pm

When I first heard of a muzzle loading shotgun, I thought of the old blunderbuss. but apparently they are in use in modern sport shooting at least a little. http://www.muzzleloadingshotguns.com/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
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Re: Random crap

Post by Matt Z » Sun Feb 24, 2013 1:35 pm

I've seen muzzle-loading shotguns in the Cabela's catalog, but I don't think they're very popular.

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Re: Random crap

Post by stuward » Sun Feb 24, 2013 2:19 pm

From here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_politics_in_Germany" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
"For persons over 18 years of age, a license is not required to own a single shot percussion firearm developed before 1870, as well as all muzzle loaders with a flintlock or earlier design."

This may explain why muzzle loaders might be popular in Germany.
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Re: Random crap

Post by ephs » Sun Feb 24, 2013 2:53 pm

i think i just don't know exactly what muzzleloaders are, cause the word is not familiar to me. i mean these shotguns, which look old and you would normally not use to kill somebody or to defend you, cause they suck. these are allowed in germany and used for hunting. like this: Image
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Re: Random crap

Post by Matt Z » Sun Feb 24, 2013 3:21 pm

That's an over-under ... A side-by-side is similar, except then the barrels are next to each other instead of stacked on top of each other.

Ironically, this is the type of weapon Joe Biden (our Vice President) recently recommended people use for home defense.

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Re: Random crap

Post by Matt Z » Sun Feb 24, 2013 3:40 pm

PS) Double-barreled shotguns are sometimes used in crime, but criminals generally saw off the barrels (and sometimes the stock), which is of course illegal.

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Re: Random crap

Post by Jungledoc » Sun Feb 24, 2013 4:38 pm

ephs, that a classic design, but a modern, breach-loading shotgun. It doesn't by any means suck. Double-barrels are popular with bird hunters, because when a bird flies up, you seldom have time for more than 2 shots anyway, and it's a reliable, simple mechanism, making for an easy-to-maintain and somewhat lighter gun.

Muzzle-loaders are old designs, used by a small group of dedicated shooters who use them for historic reasons. They require pouring powder in from the muzzle (the front end of the barrel), then putting in some wadding, then either some shot (for a shot gun, of course) or a ball or bullet (for muskets and rifles), then additional wadding for the shotgun, then pushing it all down with a ramrod. Some hunters like the challenge, because you only have one shot (2 with a double-barrel) and have to make it count. People who use muzzle loaders often dress in historic costume when they hunt. Think Davey Crocket.
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Re: Random crap

Post by Matt Z » Sun Feb 24, 2013 8:54 pm

PS) They look scarier in black. http://www.stoegerindustries.com/firear ... efense.php" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

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Re: Random crap

Post by ephs » Mon Feb 25, 2013 3:26 am

allright, now i got it.

sounds like the shotguns are better than i thought, but i would rather choose an automatic weapon for self defense. an ak47 or so is more frightening to me and it's very cheap to buy, at least in east europe.
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Re: Random crap

Post by hoosegow » Mon Feb 25, 2013 9:20 am

For defense - a riot shotgun is the way to go. There so easy to use a kid could defend the house.
Thanks TimD.

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Re: Random crap

Post by Jungledoc » Mon Feb 25, 2013 9:26 am

So Hoose, you're an advocate of the Biden Method?

If I feel I need a gun for personal protection, it'll be a handgun, probably auto, probably 9mm. Unless someone gives me a .367 revolver.

Matt, those are pretty nice-looking guns.
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Re: Random crap

Post by KenDowns » Mon Feb 25, 2013 2:34 pm

Jet Lag, new definition: When two recovery cycles of sleep and food are coordinated short term (w/in 24 hours) but not longer than that.

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Re: Random crap

Post by Matt Z » Mon Feb 25, 2013 7:38 pm

"For defense - a riot shotgun is the way to go. There so easy to use a kid could defend the house." - hoosegow

Shotguns have some drawbacks. The first and most obvious is recoil. Meanwhile, slug and buckshot shells are expensive. Together these two factors tend to limit the amount of time people spend practicing with their defensive shotguns.

Shotguns can also be difficult to maneuver in tight spaces with a buttstock and a minimum barrel length of 18".

I don't think there's a single one-sized-fits-all defensive firearm for all people and situations.
Last edited by Matt Z on Mon Feb 25, 2013 7:43 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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