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Posted: Sun Oct 28, 2007 12:40 pm
by Ironman
20 carbs a day is too low for some people. 35 to 50 is pretty good. Your diet looks pretty good to me. Don't worry about the cheese. It's ok to eat cheese. It looks like you're on track.

Posted: Sun Oct 28, 2007 2:54 pm
by TimD
I was waiting for IM to reply before I jumped in. He was the one talking mainly about the low carb thing. Most of the low carb thinking I've been around recommend keeping it below 60 gr C per day, you just kind of have to feel out how well you tolerate it. I don't have any problems going just meat and feiubrous veg, but other people do. Again, as Ironman stated, minus the carb, as long as you don't sit down and scarf down a lb or so of salami with a half lb of cheese, I wouldn't worry about the fat so much. Your going to need more than usual on this type of thing. You see to be on track. Also, you might want to add a carb up day once a week or so, where you lower your fat intake and kick your carbs up to moderate, moderately high. This type of CKD seems to work well with a lot of people.

Posted: Sun Oct 28, 2007 10:42 pm
by pdellorto
Thanks guys. I’ll keep this up.

The carb-up day sounds interesting, I’ve read about them on the Anabolic Diet. Perhaps on those couple days a week were I get fed Japanese-style meals I’ll switch to a higher carb approach. Still good carbs, mostly - those could be the days I eat squash, pumpkin, bananas, Japanese sweet potatoes, go out for sushi, etc. not donuts. That’ll be 1-2 days a week, probably only one as a carb-up. I get enough surprise carbs I can’t plan for, thanks to eating out or unrefuseable food gifts, so 1 day is probably enough.

I promise I won’t sit down and eat a pound of salami and a half a pound of cheese. Until I get back to the US and I can get imported Italian salami and fresh mozarella and proscuitto..then all bets are off. I don’t know if my first meal will be a big steak or a pizza or a calzone, but it’s going to be as bad for me as possible and sooooo good. Then I'll have to cut again. :D

Posted: Sun Nov 11, 2007 10:21 pm
by pdellorto
Just a followup:

- In general the plan is working well. I'm down to a steady 82-83kg when I wake up in the morning, and although I don't see much difference I had a women I know tell me I look noticeably leaner in spots where I tend to hold fat than I did two weeks ago. She didn't know I was dieting at all, so it seemed like a pretty honest appraisal.

- My strength is still going up - I was able to DL a new PR last week, I'm still increasing my speed on my timed workouts, and I don't feel any weaker.

- I tried IF, that was hard. The first time I ate dinner the night before, didn't eat again until dinner the next day. But I ended up doing an unexpected BJJ class that day and I had no energy. The second time I tried it was this weekend. Hard to get through Saturday without food (fasted from dinner Friday until dinner Saturday), but even with a long (15+ mile) bike ride I was able to sustain with no problems. So I know to do an IF on days I won't do anaerobic training like weights and wrestling, but I'm fine for LSD biking or short metcons.

It's been a pain avoiding the foods that I like, but the plan - a "carb up" 24-hour period on the days I can't avoid rice and starches, plus one day a week of IF, plus low-carb high-protein high-fat foods on the other days, is working fine.

So far so good! I'm already down to my fighting weight, but I'm sticking on this because I like the fat loss.


Posted: Mon Nov 12, 2007 12:42 am
by Ironman
Good to hear it's working out well for you. If you get well under the weight max for your class, You'll be able to add more muscle while staying in the same weight class, which should help.

Posted: Thu Dec 06, 2007 3:14 am
by pdellorto
Out of curiosity, is there any reason why I just couldn't eat this way all the time?

I'm finding this way of eating really convenient and easy to stick to. Plus, the fat is just melting off. Will I eventually reach a point where I need to change this diet to avoid losing muscle, or will I just need to adjust how much I eat but basically be able to keep this?

I'm very, very happy with the results. Plus my mom is happy, because I'm still eating Omega-3s and nutrient-rich foods and green leafy veggies and fresh fruit. So I don't feel even a little unhealthy. It seems like if I schedule my carb-up days right, I can keep eating this way over the holidays and still eat all the American food I miss while I'm here and end up even more lean and strong instead of packing on some extra weight eating bad stuff.

Posted: Thu Dec 06, 2007 6:47 am
by Ironman
Yea, you can eat that way all the time. Since you are doing a couple days of higher carbs it should be fine. You just keep the protein intake up and you will keep your muscle.

Posted: Thu Dec 06, 2007 8:25 am
by TimD
Absolutely you can keep that pattern. You will hit a point where it levels out, and as long as you feel good and full of energy, hey, why fix what isn't broken. I eat fairly low carb all year round, have no problems, and just dismiss it when people tell me 'you HAVE to have more carbs, for energy, what you're doing is unhealthy".

Posted: Thu Dec 06, 2007 8:46 am
by stuward
A while ago, I was dubious about whether it was reasonable to cut out grains and milk as was being recommended in a book I was reading. Using whfoods I entered in amounts of various vegetables and fruits, herbs, nuts, meats, eggs, etc and was able to create a menu that was not deficient in any nutrient. Vitamin D was the only nutrient I couldn't get and you get that from sunlight. It proved to me that grains and milk are not needed for a healthy diet. The success that people have had on diets like the No Grain, Paleo diet or the Evolutionary type diets underscore this.

The key is getting a wide variety of vegetables. Herbs are incredibly important in getting essential trace nutrients.

I also think it's conceptually easier to eliminate grains and milk that to try to eat "low-carb" since that's not very well defined. Just my opinion as you guys seem to have cracked that nut.


Posted: Thu Dec 06, 2007 9:23 am
by TimD
Stu, you are pretty much correct in that. I don't even think of it in terms of "low carb" that much. Fruits and veg are carbs, obviously. I just like to LIMIT the grains. There are some combos that I do like, like barley/or bulgar and lentils in a pilaf, and used for breakfast, or later as a salad-topper tye of thing. The thing is, I usually only go for about 1/4 to 1/3 cup serving at a given meal . (I cook up a batch, put it in plastic tubs and freeze/refrig them-they hold well). It adds a chewey texture when I dump scrambled eggs over them. The key to all thee Paleo/Zone/South Beach or even Atkins in a maintenance mode is a wide variety of veg with some fruit thrown in and to use your judgement if adding some type of WHOLE grain.

Posted: Thu Dec 06, 2007 11:12 pm
by pdellorto
I'm glad to hear this is sustainable. I like eating this way.

"Low grains" is a better description than "low carbs," it's true. Although most days I don't eat very much fruit at all, not compared to what I used to. I try to make up for it with more vegetables, which I have with every big meal. Snacks are mostly nuts, cheese, etc. with a drink of protein powder and water. When I have grains, I have them on my carb-up days and take advantage of them.

whfoods has been a tremendous help in making sure I get all my nutrition. I was able to look up the fruits I stopped eating on my "low carb" days and ensure I added vegetables and other foods (spices, mostly) to make sure I get them. So I don't feel unhealthy. And as I said a couple times in this thread, I'm looking much better too.

Using a rather simplistic waist/wrist/weight bodyfat calculator and measurements, I went from 87kg and 34 waist and 14% bodyfat after bulking up to about 82kg, 32.5 waist, and 9% bodyfat. I'm not sure those measurements say it all though, because generally I hold weight in my lower back above the waist and in my butt...both of which have shrunk a lot. Since I fight at 83kg, this is great...still a bit of bodyfat to drop, but that gives me more growing room while I stay at the same weight class. If only my injury-prone body will hold up, I'll be all set. It's nice to have an eating plan that I like, instead of one to do until I reach a certain goal.