2 Latt Issues

[Guest]

#1 Do you guys do a pull-down behind the neck? and why? seems you would never pull something behind your neck naturally.

#2 Do you guys do pull-downs using the palms facing you to work biceps secondary? Hows that working for you?

Thanks,

[Stephen Johnson]

#1 Do you guys do a pull-down behind the neck? and why? seems you would never pull something behind your neck naturally.

http://tinyurl.com/os2pt

To do the behind-the-neck pulldown as normally instructed, you must externally rotate your shoulders as much as possible. This is a very delicate position for your shoulders.

The supporting muscles of the shoulders (known as the rotator cuff) are not in a good position to stabilize the joint and injury to those supporting muscles can result, which can lead to further injury in the connective tissue of the joint.

On top of that, since most people do not have enough shoulder flexibility to get a straight line of pull behind the neck, they must bend their neck forward to even do the movement. This can result in neck strain on top of shoulder strain.

#2 Do you guys do pull-downs using the palms facing you to work biceps secondary? Hows that working for you?

The biceps are often the weak link in compund pulling movements, especially if they are put at a mechanical disadvantage by a pronated (overhand) grip. The biceps are in a stronger position to flex the elbow when the palms are in a supinated (palms up) position. For some reason, people are loathe to exercise the biceps with compound movements. But I've had good results with reverse grip (and neutral grip) pulldowns and chins with regard to arm development

[Guest]

thats exactly what i needed!

[Matt Z]

Supposedly doing pulldowns/chins behind thew neck shifts more emphasis to the mid-back (traps/rhomboids) as well as working the lats from a slightly different angle. However, I don't think this type of movement is neccissary for complete development, and since they can irritate the shoulder joint, I wouldn't recoment them.

I would however recomend reverse-grip pulldowns/chins. Not only is a narrow reverse grip good for biceps, it also give you a great stretch in your lats.

[Guest]

Referring to the article posted by Stephen Johnson, does anyone in here actually regulary perform behind the neck shoulder press or upright rows? And if so, would you agree that they are "an injury just waiting to happen"

I've been training 'religiously' for 2 years and have actually always done them, my very first routine had behind neck and infront of neck shoulder press - now, when shoulder pressing I mix them e.g 1st rep front, next rep behind etc etc. I think it feels brilliant, I cant really comment on the very technical details, but when I perform them I only bring the bar down to the point where my arms are just beyond horizontal to the floor. If that makes sense, in other words, I dont go all the way down. I have never had any problems and infact, I have made good strength and size gains in my shoulders.

As for Upright rows, I also really like this exercise and have never had any problems with it. I must admit that on occasion it has felt a little awkward but this is always down to jerking the weight up - using too much. With good form I've never had any problems, feels like a great exercise.

Also know a few people who have been training much longer than I have and they all 'sell' these 2 exercises when giving advice...

As for pull downs - never done them this way. Not for any particular reason, I have just never got round to trying them.

KP

[KPj]

forgot to log in... Above post was me.

Thanks

KP

[Ironman]

I don't do either of them because they hurt. Besides shoulders, barbell upright rows hurt my wrists too. They are the only lifts I have problems with. Unless you count full squats, but that is my lack of flexibility.

[Matt Z]

Some people can do behind-the-neck presses and pulldowns for years with no problems. For others, these exercises become increasingly uncomforatable over time. But in either case you should be aware the these exercises put your shoulder joints in a vulnerable position, and take apropriate precautions.

In my case, I avoid these excercises because I have a family history of rotator cuff problems, and because I find them somewhat akward. I also usually avoid upright rows and wide-grip pulldowns to the front, because these excercises cause my shoulders to make clicking/popping noises accompanyed by slight joint soarness.

[TimD]

Hi. I'm one of those that Matt mentioned. I do them all the time, primarily as assistance for O lifting. I've found that if one let's the shoulder girdle get out of balance, i.e. too much emphasis on benching, not enough on overhead and the associated pulling movements, you will get impingements in the shoulders. If this happens, upright rows and presses behind the neck can be an accident waiting to happen. My advice, keep your shoulder girdle well balanced, and if impingements do set in, then time to avoid the B/N and upright row stuff.
Tim

[Stephen Johnson]

Hi. I'm one of those that Matt mentioned. I do them all the time, primarily as assistance for O lifting. I've found that if one let's the shoulder girdle get out of balance, i.e. too much emphasis on benching, not enough on overhead and the associated pulling movements, you will get impingements in the shoulders.

I read somewhere that Mark Henry, who some people call the world's strongest man, doesn't train much for the bench press because he also competes in the Olympic lifts. Olympic lifters have never been big on benching, and have healthier shoulders than powerlifters despite the heavy poundage that they press overhead

[TimD]

Hi Stephen. Yep, we're showing our age now, LOL. When I started out, back in the early 60's, the question was "how much can you clean and press", not "how much can you bench". We did use the various benches, but mostly as an overload assist for overhead pressing, and high inclines with a clean grip to assist in shotputting and discus throwing.
Tim

[DubDub]

As I rule I never do them, simply because the jury seems to be out on them. But it seems that most people here think they're okay, so I guess you cold go for it.

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