about statins, LDL and mortality

Discussion of peer refereed articles and clinical applications

Moderators: Ironman, Jungledoc, ianjay, stuward

Post Reply
josh60
Novice
Novice
Posts: 95
Joined: Thu Dec 29, 2011 5:15 am

about statins, LDL and mortality

Post by josh60 » Mon Aug 13, 2012 5:50 am

http://www.thelancet.com/journals/lance ... 5/abstract" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Teaser: "Reduction of LDL cholesterol with a statin reduced the risk of major vascular events ... largely irrespective of age, sex, baseline LDL cholesterol or previous vascular disease, and of vascular and all-cause mortality."

The research was not funded by drug companies.

User avatar
stuward
moderator
moderator
Posts: 6608
Joined: Sat Mar 10, 2007 5:44 pm
Location: Halifax, NS

Re: about statins, LDL and mortality

Post by stuward » Mon Aug 13, 2012 7:03 am

Funding
British Heart Foundation; UK Medical Research Council; Cancer Research UK; European Community Biomed Programme; Australian National Health and Medical Research Council; National Heart Foundation, Australia.
josh60 wrote:The research was not funded by drug companies.
You don't think there is connection between these organizations and drug companies?

Also, this study doesn't tell you why the statins appear to be protective, or whether other, non-drug interventions might work better. For example, statins reduce inflamation. So does fish oil. Inflamation has a proven connection to cardiac events. Just saying.
Stu Ward
_________________
Let thy food be thy medicine, and thy medicine be thy food.~Hippocrates
Strength is the adaptation that leads to all other adaptations that you really care about - Charles Staley
_________________
Thanks TimD

josh60
Novice
Novice
Posts: 95
Joined: Thu Dec 29, 2011 5:15 am

Re: about statins, LDL and mortality

Post by josh60 » Mon Aug 13, 2012 8:13 am

stuward wrote:You don't think there is connection between these organizations and drug companies?
I'm sure everything is connected to everything else, as Dirk Gently taught me so many years ago. If we go by "connection" we can eliminate every research ever done. However, the research was not funded by said companies so we do not face a clear and direct case of (conflict of) interests .
Also, this study doesn't tell you why the statins appear to be protective, or whether other, non-drug interventions might work better. For example, statins reduce inflamation. So does fish oil. Inflamation has a proven connection to cardiac events. Just saying.
There is always the possibility of some unknown hidden variable, but in order for your alternative explanation to hold, you have to assume statins takers are also high on Omegs-3, which is not a given. But I don't want to sound like statins salesperson, so everyone is welcome to draw their own conclusions. Me - I keep on taking mine (and Aspirin too).

User avatar
stuward
moderator
moderator
Posts: 6608
Joined: Sat Mar 10, 2007 5:44 pm
Location: Halifax, NS

Re: about statins, LDL and mortality

Post by stuward » Mon Aug 13, 2012 8:23 am

I'm just saying, keep an open mind. Research groups have an agenda.

Omega 3 reduces inflamation, statins reduce inflamation through a different mechanism. No assumption is required.

Here are some other views on statins:

http://www.reddit.com/r/Health/search?q ... rict_sr=on" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

(Reddit is an interesting site since readers vote up and down posts they think are relevant. This tends to concentrate the most important posts at the top. )
Stu Ward
_________________
Let thy food be thy medicine, and thy medicine be thy food.~Hippocrates
Strength is the adaptation that leads to all other adaptations that you really care about - Charles Staley
_________________
Thanks TimD

josh60
Novice
Novice
Posts: 95
Joined: Thu Dec 29, 2011 5:15 am

Re: about statins, LDL and mortality

Post by josh60 » Wed Aug 15, 2012 10:41 am

SCIAM take on the issue: http://www.scientificamerican.com/artic ... -take-them" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; seems to me to be a good summary of the controversy.

Kenny Croxdale
Powerlifting Ninja
Powerlifting Ninja
Posts: 1109
Joined: Sun Dec 24, 2006 10:36 am

Re: about statins, LDL and mortality

Post by Kenny Croxdale » Thu Aug 16, 2012 8:22 am

josh60 wrote:http://www.thelancet.com/journals/lance ... 5/abstract

Teaser: "Reduction of LDL cholesterol with a statin reduced the risk of major vascular events ... largely irrespective of age, sex, baseline LDL cholesterol or previous vascular disease, and of vascular and all-cause mortality."

The research was not funded by drug companies.
High LDL

There are two type of LDL.

1) Type A, fluffy.

2) Type B, BB pellet like.

Type B create problems, Type A don't.

LDL Reading

Due to lack of education plus the fact that everyone want a one word answer.

Is a high LDL level good or bad? The standard answer is, "Bad."

Unfortunately, it's not that simple.

LDL can and need to be broken down to see if it more Type B (bad) or Type A (benign). However, few physicians will do that.

Overall View

The most effective method of determing you cardio risk factor is to look at your HDL and Triglycerides.

Good News

1) High HDL

2) Low Triglycerides

If those two occur, it tell you that a High LDL is primarily Type A (benign).

Bad News

1) Low HDL

2) High Triglycerides

If you have a reading like this, "You're a heart attack waiting to happen". Dr Robert Lustig (physician) and Dr Johnny Bowden (nutrition).

It also tells you that if you LDL is high, it is primarily Type B, which cause cardiovascular problems.

Statins

Statins appear to create more problems they they solve.

Kenny Croxdale
Thanks TimD.

User avatar
stuward
moderator
moderator
Posts: 6608
Joined: Sat Mar 10, 2007 5:44 pm
Location: Halifax, NS

Re: about statins, LDL and mortality

Post by stuward » Thu Aug 16, 2012 8:34 am

Good summary Kenny. I'd like to add that low HDL can be corrected by exercise and eating more eggs. High triglycerides can be corrected by cutting carbs and eating more eggs.

There is no such thing as a Statin deficiency.
Stu Ward
_________________
Let thy food be thy medicine, and thy medicine be thy food.~Hippocrates
Strength is the adaptation that leads to all other adaptations that you really care about - Charles Staley
_________________
Thanks TimD

BrisbaneAEP
n00b
n00b
Posts: 4
Joined: Fri Dec 21, 2012 3:20 am

Re: about statins, LDL and mortality

Post by BrisbaneAEP » Fri Dec 21, 2012 3:30 am

Can I just say about statins. the JUPITER study which is the golden light for statin overprescription is inherently biased. If you actualy look at the study the lead researcher actually references alot of his OWN work. Whether it was or not funded by drug companies, it was always going to come to 1 result which was suited to the lead researcher.
Personally I believe like many drugs, they are just masking an underlying problem and not forcing the patient to reassess their habits and lifestyle. The evidence about reduced mortality is also not as strong as we are lead to believe due to the researchers not accounting for all variables. Particularly longitudinally.
Rant over

Post Reply