Some movements/exercise will provide the same power outputs as the Olympic movements...the question is which one do that.Kpj,KPj wrote:ok, I accept the power output thing. Never understood it before but do now. As soon as I saw that OLifting created more power, I wanted to jump on the power lifting wagon and say "hey! thats not right...etc etc etc" but now I realise that 'Power' isn't my goal, despite the name of 'power lifting' - strength is what i'm after. Obviously, incorporating some of the OL principles into that goal will help, but at the end of the day, I just want to lift heavy things - not that i'm trying to take away from OLifting, not at all, just preference.
Being a powerlifter, I can relate to "lifting heavy things." That is my goal for each meet.
However by increasing your power, you increase you limit strength...meaning you can lift even "heavier things." Louie Simmons Westside Method have proven that.
With that said, the foundation of power and speed are built on strength. Thus, the first thing you need to do to increase your power or speed it to increase your strength.
Increasing your strength works up to a point. If an athelte continues to only train with heavy weight and slow speed, their power and speed diminish.
So, their si some truth to the old addage of the coaches in the 1960s lifting weights will make you muscle bound and slow.
The poster children for strength and power are Olympic lifters. These athletes possess enormous strength and power. It is due to their training methods.
Olympic lifter's perform concurrtent strength training...meaning they train wiith heavy weigth to develop strength and moderate weight moved as fast as the can.
The end result is that Olympic lifters exhibit the greatest displays of power output and strength in the sports.
So, performing some power exercise will increase you ability to "lift heavy things" and including strength movements will increase your power output.
Obviously, having an instructor is preferred. However, let's say you have a car but don't know how to drive it. You have to walk to work, which is 10 mile away. Your a can walk 4 miles a hour. Which means you are it will take you about 2.5 hours to get to work and another 2.5 hours to get home...a total of 5 hours a day commute time to work and back.Would you learn to drive without the use of an instructor? Or just watch someone drive and then dive in and have a go yourself?Would you buy a car with no brakes or bad brakes?
Conversely, driving the car to work will get you there in 20 minutes. Your average is 30 mph...you have to stop at lights, there is traffic, etc.
Would you invest you time in learning to drive a car via watching a video and reading or continue to walk to work?
As Tim noted, self education works. Abraham Lincoln is an example of that.
If so, then all of the Olympic lifting video are worthless and a bit of a scam. That same would appy ot training books, as well...would that it be.Let take a look a medicine. When God created the earth, he didn't create medical universitites so we could learn to brain surgery or to heal others.You could say this about anything; brain surgeons, engineers, pilots - i'm sure allot these guys could learn themselves,
Initally, medical doctors learned by experimenting on others. Medicine evolved and continues to with experimentation. Thus, the foundation of what we now know was built in many ways on self education.
The same holds true for engineers, pilots and other fields. Every field needs lab rats in which scientist test their theories and learn...this is self education.
Everytime I hear the term "functional," I want to puke. It is abused, over used and misunderstood. Learning to squat is "functional" in that you learn how to get down to the potty or a chair and get up, etc.As I said in my last post, i've went functional.
So, the majority of strength training movement are "fucntional." Standing on a ball and doing curls is NOT functional. There are few instances in which anyone would perform that mvoement...see my post on "BOSU Balls, a waste to fime." Even Irorman signed off on it.
Your bias appear to be from a bad experience. Your message seems to be, try it and if it does't work, give up.In other words, i'm biased in this debate.
I understand your frustration. That occurs with everyone in every field of endeavor.
However, success with everything requires pesistance. Research by Dr Richard Wiseman (physiocologist/University of Herfordschire/England) shows that successful individuals fail many time before they get to their destination.
What seperates the successful individual form those that fail, is that the successful individual won't give up.
Think about this. You can be wrong 30% of them time and make about #2.000,000 a year. That is approximately the salry of major league of baseball players batting .300.
For only hitting the ball and getting on base 30% of the time will make you a millionaire. Understandably some genetics is require...but a ton of practice need to take place, as well.
There is a risk factor with everything we do. I would venture to guess that you are probably more at risk driving around in your car than learning some Olmpic movements.I can accept that some people can pick these things up themselves just by watching and doing them, i just think it's dangerous. When your body over compensates, it feels natural... And as I said, to look at videos of yourself you need to know what to look for.
Secondly, Harvey Newton's does a great job of breaking down the Olymipic movments into "bit size pieces," so that you can lean with a minimal amout of risk...the benefits far out weight the risk.
Most people starting out are clueless. I was. The Sear set of weight that I got came with a small book on weight training. It showed the exercises, that was it.At the same time, i have a strong belief that most people starting out in the lifting world, regardless of their goals would benefit from a chronic injury. As stupid as it sounds, it's the only way people realise what they're doing to themselves, that 25 sets of 8 on there chest on chest day is a tad too much. And yes, you do have a back, and legs, and no, the squat rack isn't for curls (had to get that one in). Most people who 'know better' have normally learned through hands on experience of correcting problems from making stupid mistakes in the first place.
I use the same weight training exercises everyday and gradually became weaker, from overtraining. No one was around to teach me. I ended up buying books and learning. Then I found others to train with and learned.
I continue to learn by experimentation and from others. I consider myself an expert in all the thing you SHOULD NOT do.
My philosophy is that "It better to fall on your face going for the ball than to fall back on your butt waiting for the ball to come to you." Billy Martin/Baseball.
I am not the only one on this board with those credentials. Tim, stuward, Ironman and other have experience with this. Their post are based on what they've learned in the world of "hard knocks" as well as through the academinc world of study.
This board is about discussion and debate. It is also about sharing with other what we have learned, so that other don't make the same mistakes.
But I believe the answer your looking for is, "no exercise or movement produce the same power output as olympic movements"
As an example, research by Dr Mike Stone has shown that the power output of throwing the shot putt is basically the same as the Olympic movements.
Stone's research shows that loads of 70-80% of a max in the Olympic movement best develops power. Olympic movement are ballistic, meaning that a body or object becomes airborne. That occus with Olympic movement since the athlete is jumping with the weight.
Balistic movement develop power throughout the entire range of the movement.
Power is developed in squat jumps and bench press throws with loads of 10-40% of a max, with about 30% of max producing the best power outputs. However, the power output does not compare to the Olympic movements.
Power is best developed in squats, bench press, etc with loads that are about 40-60% of max. However, power is developed in a very small range of the movement because part of the movement is devoted to slowing the bar down before lockout...otherwise a whiplash effect would occur.
Kenny Croxdale
