going split prog --> full body

[frogfroggy]

Ok I have been doing the last 2 motnhs straight a 2-day split (program is under the thread swimming=overtrain). Now to switch the whole thing up I want to do a Full body workout for the next few weeks cause I want to start all over again.
Ok my program would look like this
Legs: Squats, leg curls, calf
Chest: Bench press, DB flies
Back: Lat pulldown, seated row
shoulders : BB overhead press, shrugs
Arms: DB curls, tricep extension BB
and then ABs and lower back

Everything in 3 sets 12-10-8 reps except the calves where I will do one set 15 reps. Isnt this kinda much ? I got this program from Mens Health Total Body Workout (anyone interested I can send them the .pdf file 10.4MB through IM) And should I mix it up with agonists-antagonists (Bench,lat pullodwn, DB flies etc. ...)? I think I could this roughly for an hour if there arent so many people in the gym ^^ hehe Or should I do 2 sets instead ? Or cut a few exercises ? Thanks for comments that will follow soon ;)
Oh and my off-days I will do HIT-swimming for 20-30 minutes...

EDIT: I think 2 or 3 workout days is sufficiant probably 2 is even enough too, cause Im going swimming but if I cut swimming thats not bad either... I usually only go once a week swimming and thats on a saturday.

[TimD]

I think the program looks fine. You say you're starting over, and that would be appropriate. I also like the idea of using antagonists. One thing you might want to consider for streamlining purposes, is that I noticed you have 2 exercises for some muscle groups, i.e. chest, legs. Thats fine. Do the major exercises (BP for chest, Squats for legs in your example) and work them for the 3 ets, and do the secondary exercises for 2 sets. That should be fine and shouldn't tap you out. Also, combined with swiming, 2-3 days/week should be just fine.
Good training.
Tim

[Stephen Johnson]

FrogFroggy

The only question that I have about your workout is the pairing of squats/leg curls for training legs. I did that when I started out lifting, and before too long I had a big strength imbalance between my quads and hamstrings. The leg curl is an isolation exercise, and as such it is hard to go really heavy on it. You don't have that problem with squats. I would recommend substituting stiff legged deadlifts and/or Romanian deadlifts for the curls, so your hamstrings can keep up with your quads.

[frogfroggy]

I think I wrote something wrong, the leg curls are for harmstrings ^^ I wont go heavy with squats cause I had a history of knee problems (left,due to muscle imbalance,the inner muscle of my quads were weaker than the rest, so it made pop sounds).
So if I do harmstrings and such wont there be any imbalance in this routine? like between chest and back ?

[Matt Z]

I would drop the dumbbell flys and add either dumbbell laterals or upright rows for shoulders. Also, I would recomend alternating flat and incline bench presses.

[Ryan A]

I'm sure Ironman's comments were assuming leg curls are for the hamstrings.

I think you combination of squats and leg curls are fine to start. If you have weak inner muscles, it should be pretty easy to tell when you squat. On the ascent coming out of the whole, your knees should not move inward at all. If they buckle in, you have a weak "tear drop" muscle. This can be corrected by doing a frew things.

First of all, focus on pushing your knees out as you squat upward, and do not allow the knees to track inward. Next, since you are not going to be squatting heavy, I would do 2-3 sets of bodyweight split squats before you begin squats or leg curls.

Split squats would be done by getting in a lunge position (wide enough so that your knee never passes your toes) and then squatting down. The difference between this and a lunge is that you will not alternate feet and you will not move your feet from their placement. The continued tension on the muscle will promote much faster than doing a regular lunge. This will probably work your hamstrings a bit as well so I wouldnt count it as a possible cause of imbalance for the leg. As you get better you can try elevating your back leg allowing you to squat deeper which will get the hamstrings and quad even more.

[frogfroggy]

Ok good info that you guys are giving there.
The reason why Im doing dumbbell flies are because I read in MEns Health total bopdy workout thingy that flies promote size (and thats what Im aiming for, cause I have chicken breast... ^^) But if it also works out the shoulders hmm that would be like 3 shoulder exercises every workout and thats quite a lot.

Ryan A: the Split Squat should look like lunges but I dont change the legs ? But just stay in the same position and keep going up and down ? Is that right ? The picture exrx.net shows the knee passes the toes however -_- But thanks sounds good I might try it on monday.

[Ironman]

I think press promotes size a lot more then flies. I'd swap the flies for incline because as it is you have nothing for the upper part of the chest. On shoulders you'd probably be better off with something that hits the latteral head more.

[frogfroggy]

Upright rows for lateral should I omit Shrugs completely ? Or is it just a bonus, I mean for upper Trapezius I have nothing or are there any compund exercises that work them as well ? Or should I even workout that part ? I just want to look a little buff and be strong thats it.

[TimD]

Frog, don't want to confuse you, looks like you're getting a lot of suggestions, but you could always replace the shrugs with the upright rows that you are asking about. You can't use the amount of weight with the upright row, but they are a more compound move, and yes, they work the upper traps quite nicely, as well as the shoulders, and use a bit of bicep work as well.
Tim

[Ironman]

I meant to replace overhead press. So you could do 2 or 3 sets of upright rows and then throw in a set of shrugs for a little more upper trap work.

[TimD]

Frog, I would stick with your original plan (Men's health I think)before replacing major basic moves like overhead pressing. If doing it with a Barbell is too much, use DB's. It's a good basic move, hits the entire shoulder girdle, and I have no idea why people sub in laterals, etc.
Tim

[Ironman]

It's because most of the work is done by the anterior delts. If you need anterior delt work, it's better to do that then front raises because it works lateral delts and upper traps a bit. After doing chest and back, the lateral delts and the upper traps are the areas that got no work at all. That's why my opinion is to focus the shoulder work on those muscles.

[TimD]

If you read the initial post, he is starting from scratch, and trying to get into a program thats works the most, full body, without overdoing it. That said, why in the he++ should he worry about [psterior, anterior, or anything else, delts? Just work the whole thing. The article he is drawing from is well thought out, possibly missing the point with hams, so let it go/ If he feels he needs to specialize in "delts", then after a good breakin, he can determine which "delts" he has to specialize in/. The idea of breaking in is not specialization, but rather, getting familiar with, and developing the body with major, compound lifts.
Shoulder elevation plus shoulder pusing is probably the major motion one should be going for. Drop it? Are you nuts?
This is exactly what I was referring to in another thread. Peole don't read the initials, or references, and shout out all these "tweaks", and confuse the guy further than he already is. He picked a good progam, let him try it, and tweak it from there.
Tim

[Ironman]

I think everyone was just putting their own opinion out there. That's all I was doing anyway. If he is confused or doesn't like our advise he is always free to do the program as written.