How many exercises per muscle group?

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stuward
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Post by stuward » Wed Oct 14, 2009 8:38 am

tipsycoma wrote:
And what is a 5/3/1 split?
5/3/1 refers to Jim Wendler's program.

http://strength-basics.blogspot.com/200 ... 5-3-1.html

Note that this is a 4 week periodization cycle. That's really an advanced program. If you haven't tried a weekly cycle (Heavy/light), try that first. Once that doesn't work try the 5/3/1/.

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Post by Ben83 » Thu Sep 09, 2010 4:12 am

there are guys in my gym who will literally do bicep curls in every conceivable position, free weight, pulley-systems, preachers curls, standing curls, super-setting... you name it... they do it all on one day - i'll a 90 min work out (incl queuing for equipment!) and in that whole time they are still doing biceps!

I've never bothered to do that, my routine is remarkably close the the OP.
Is all that excessive targeting as excessive as it looks to me?

Someone recently recommended i try focusing on 'Negatives'. Are they particularly beneficial? I was told that the majority of muscle damage and therefore growth (scar tissue creation etc) is done on the negative movement while most str is built on the positive movement... True/false?

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Post by NightFaLL » Thu Sep 09, 2010 9:25 am

I have large arms and I usually only do 2-3 sets of biceps/triceps at the end of my chest/back day.

Although, I will say, if you want big arms - having a day where it's an 'arm day' can be of benefit. I tried removing mine for a few months and I really feel like I had better progress with a day specifically for arms.

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Post by callipygian50 » Thu Sep 09, 2010 9:05 pm

Ben83 wrote:there are guys in my gym who will literally do bicep curls in every conceivable position, free weight, pulley-systems, preachers curls, standing curls, super-setting... you name it... they do it all on one day - i'll a 90 min work out (incl queuing for equipment!) and in that whole time they are still doing biceps!
Out of curiosity, do these guys work other parts of their body on other days? Or are these the guys who think the bicep is the only muscle worth working? If they only work biceps, what do they look likes? Spindly legs?

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Post by Jungledoc » Thu Sep 09, 2010 10:33 pm

Ben83 wrote:Someone recently recommended i try focusing on 'Negatives'. Are they particularly beneficial? I was told that the majority of muscle damage and therefore growth (scar tissue creation etc) is done on the negative movement while most str is built on the positive movement... True/false?
Working negatives is a bit of a special technique that is good for some situations, but not too useful for general purposes. If you can't get 1 rep of concentric, doing negatives may get you enough strength to get to the point where you can do concentrics. Like on chin-ups. Also when a lift plateaus, people use them to "break through" the plateau. For example you get spotters to lift the bar on bench, then you lower it to your chest yourself, using more weight than you can actually press.

What you refer to as "muscle damage" is not really damage, but part of the normal physiology of muscle development and strength gain. The muscle fibers are disrupted, and reform in a stronger way. "Scar tissue creation" is a bad thing, implying injury! Most people notice more soreness after exercises that have a large eccentric component, but I don't really think anyone knows why that is. It just is. Also, people tend to recover faster from lifts with a lighter eccentric, like the olympic lifts, for which most people lower the bar quickly with only slight control or drop it altogether.

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Post by Ben83 » Fri Sep 10, 2010 3:39 am

callipygian50 wrote:
Ben83 wrote:there are guys in my gym who will literally do bicep curls in every conceivable position, free weight, pulley-systems, preachers curls, standing curls, super-setting... you name it... they do it all on one day - i'll a 90 min work out (incl queuing for equipment!) and in that whole time they are still doing biceps!
Out of curiosity, do these guys work other parts of their body on other days? Or are these the guys who think the bicep is the only muscle worth working? If they only work biceps, what do they look likes? Spindly legs?
Heh, they do a few muscle parts... some do whole body, but like over what i assume is a 10 day cycle...
Most of them though do have quite skinny legs...
the 10 cycle thing brings me to another question though... ok so reading the forums one thing is clear, what works for one person may not be effective for another. However, i try to train each muscle group twice a week. Is that in general, suitable or would i be better off doing one group per day over say a 10 day 'week'.

current regime is:
monday - chest, back, hamstrings/ + some CV
Tuesday - shoulders, tris & bis, leg press + some CV
wednesday off
thurs - repeat monday
fri - repeat tuesday
sat & sun ... spent with missus
Last edited by Ben83 on Fri Sep 10, 2010 3:48 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Post by Ben83 » Fri Sep 10, 2010 3:45 am

Jungledoc wrote:
Ben83 wrote:Someone recently recommended i try focusing on 'Negatives'. Are they particularly beneficial? I was told that the majority of muscle damage and therefore growth (scar tissue creation etc) is done on the negative movement while most str is built on the positive movement... True/false?
Working negatives is a bit of a special technique that is good for some situations, but not too useful for general purposes. If you can't get 1 rep of concentric, doing negatives may get you enough strength to get to the point where you can do concentrics. Like on chin-ups. Also when a lift plateaus, people use them to "break through" the plateau. For example you get spotters to lift the bar on bench, then you lower it to your chest yourself, using more weight than you can actually press.

What you refer to as "muscle damage" is not really damage, but part of the normal physiology of muscle development and strength gain. The muscle fibers are disrupted, and reform in a stronger way. "Scar tissue creation" is a bad thing, implying injury! Most people notice more soreness after exercises that have a large eccentric component, but I don't really think anyone knows why that is. It just is. Also, people tend to recover faster from lifts with a lighter eccentric, like the olympic lifts, for which most people lower the bar quickly with only slight control or drop it altogether.
Ah kk cool! I've used it so far on D'bell side raises but with the pulley... so i use one hand to pull the wire down and then lower slowly with the other... that being said, i only do it right at the end of a set to force out 3-4 negative reps at the end of a normal set... Should i be focusing negatives more on weights that are simply too heavy like you mentioned for breaking plateaus? (i have hit a plateau on shoulders... particularly should press)


is lifting to failure effective?

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Re: How many exercises per muscle group?

Post by nageljj » Tue Oct 18, 2011 7:10 am

heres my plan..

mon - chest - 12 sets between 3 or 4 exercises.
- tris - 4-8 sets between 2-3 exercises, (doing less because your chest exercises indirectly fatigure triceps, try not to overtrain them

tues - back - 15 sets between 4-5 exercises
- bicep - 4-8 sets between 2-3 exercises (again you worked back hard and your biceps are being hit as well, don't overtain)

wed - shoulders - 15 sets between 4-5 exercises

thursday - legs and calved - 15 sets between 4-5 exercises.


Work cardio in a little bit after every weight session if you can, restart schedule whenever you feel you have rested enough whether it be on friday or again starting on monday. Fit abs in every morning or night if you have the time, or with certain workouts whenever you like.

try to change up your muscle groupings and workouts every 6 weeks to avoid adaptation.

my success - 20 years old, lifting for 3 solid years. 172lb, 16 inch arms, 6 feet tall, 7.8% body fat.

goodluck. :thumbright:

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Re: How many exercises per muscle group?

Post by Dub » Tue Oct 18, 2011 9:23 am

nageljj wrote:.....
The idea that you're lifting four days in a row and then rest for three days doesn't sound so nice to my ears. Yeah, your muscle groups vary, but when you do chest, you also work with your biceps and shoulders, and when you work your shoulders, you also train your biceps, triceps, and oftenly back and chest. There is a risk you won't give your upper body muscles even 24 hours of rest between exercises. Be careful with that, your muscles develop with resting. I would prefer something like Mon-Wed-Fri-Sun or something like that if you train four times a week.
I never work out two days in a row, unless I have no choise. But that's just me.
Last edited by Dub on Tue Oct 18, 2011 2:50 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: How many exercises per muscle group?

Post by Oscar_Actuary » Tue Oct 18, 2011 10:40 am

http://exrx.net/forum/posting.php?mode= ... 17&p=77489" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
nageljj wrote:I'm 150lbs and trying to fix my nutrition while bulking. On days I lift, I go straight from the workplace to home, change quickly, make myself a 300-500 calorie workout shake, and head to the gym to meet my workout partner.
Is this a good idea? I see so many people saying 'use whole foods for protein' that I'm starting to question this method.
Also, I've tried VPX Zero-carb protein shakes and they are delicious! Is there a time this would be good to take, such as post-workout if I planned to have a meal 30 min after?
http://exrx.net/forum/posting.php?mode= ... =7&p=77609" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
nageljj wrote:Well duh, you have no exercises to target that area. For starters, do your french press with a barbell, a regular barbell (No EZ, no french press bar, no dumbell). Replace the overhead dumbell extension with either skull crushers or close-grip bench presses. Instead of rope pressdown do a normal pressdown and instead of dumbell kickbacks do , wel whatever, should leave somthing for the other two heads.
nageljj wrote:heres my plan..
mon - chest - 12 sets between 3 or 4 exercises.
- tris - 4-8 sets between 2-3 exercises, (doing less because your chest exercises indirectly fatigure triceps, try not to overtrain them
tues - back - 15 sets between 4-5 exercises
- bicep - 4-8 sets between 2-3 exercises (again you worked back hard and your biceps are being hit as well, don't overtain)
wed - shoulders - 15 sets between 4-5 exercises
thursday - legs and calved - 15 sets between 4-5 exercises.
Work cardio in a little bit after every weight session if you can, restart schedule whenever you feel you have rested enough whether it be on friday or again starting on monday. Fit abs in every morning or night if you have the time, or with certain workouts whenever you like.
try to change up your muscle groupings and workouts every 6 weeks to avoid adaptation.
my success - 20 years old, lifting for 3 solid years. 172lb, 16 inch arms, 6 feet tall, 7.8% body fat.
goodluck. :thumbright:
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Re: How many exercises per muscle group?

Post by robertscott » Tue Oct 18, 2011 10:55 am

well played Oscar, well played

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Re: How many exercises per muscle group?

Post by Jungledoc » Wed Oct 19, 2011 8:27 am

7 point 8 percent body fat!

I'll take advice from no one but him from now on.

However, he didn't notice that the thread is a year old, and several of the principals are no longer around.

Yes, Oscar, well played. You have a great memory.
Our greatest fear should not be of failure, but of succeeding at things in life that don't really matter.--Francis Chan

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Re: How many exercises per muscle group?

Post by Oscar_Actuary » Wed Oct 19, 2011 11:13 am

Jungledoc wrote:You have a great memory.
That's an optimistic way to look at it.

No life
Bad work ethic

might be two others.

:lol:

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Re: How many exercises per muscle group?

Post by CorlessJohnJ » Thu Nov 03, 2011 2:12 pm

nageljj wrote:heres my plan..

mon - chest - 12 sets between 3 or 4 exercises.
- tris - 4-8 sets between 2-3 exercises, (doing less because your chest exercises indirectly fatigure triceps, try not to overtrain them

tues - back - 15 sets between 4-5 exercises
- bicep - 4-8 sets between 2-3 exercises (again you worked back hard and your biceps are being hit as well, don't overtain)

wed - shoulders - 15 sets between 4-5 exercises

thursday - legs and calved - 15 sets between 4-5 exercises.


Work cardio in a little bit after every weight session if you can, restart schedule whenever you feel you have rested enough whether it be on friday or again starting on monday. Fit abs in every morning or night if you have the time, or with certain workouts whenever you like.

try to change up your muscle groupings and workouts every 6 weeks to avoid adaptation.

my success - 20 years old, lifting for 3 solid years. 172lb, 16 inch arms, 6 feet tall, 7.8% body fat.

goodluck. :thumbright:
Being 6 foot tall and haveing 16 inch arms isnt that big. I'm 5'8 with 16 inch arms and I feel like a little b1tc#. I'm 193 lbs... and... not sure about the body fat maybe 14-17% lol
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Re: How many exercises per muscle group?

Post by Jungledoc » Thu Nov 03, 2011 10:44 pm

Don't feed the troll. This guy cam on the board, dug up an old thread, and then was arrogant and rude, and hurt our sensitive feelings. Let him fade peacefully away.
Our greatest fear should not be of failure, but of succeeding at things in life that don't really matter.--Francis Chan

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