upper limit for protein consumption

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NightFaLL
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Post by NightFaLL » Fri Dec 17, 2010 10:34 am

robertscott wrote:
NightFaLL wrote:Also, 220lbs isn't super big.. how tall is he? Pretty ripped?
yeah I agree with that, the guy's not so much really big as just a beast. He's 6 foot 2, ripped as hell and strong as a bear. I'm pretty damn envious of him to be honest.
6'2" 220 isn't really that big, you should let him know he's wasting a lot of money even attempting to have his protein consumption that high - even though I'm positive he's nowhere near 900g a day.

I don't think I even eat 900grams a day of ALL combined macronutrients and I'd venture to say I've got substantially more actual muscle mass than him.

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Post by NightFaLL » Fri Dec 17, 2010 10:36 am

Also, keep in mind that protein requirements increase as carb intake decreases.

Diets like a protein sparing modified fast can have you going for 1.5-2g/lbs, just because your primary source of fuel is body fat and amino acids, as such you've gotta get quite a bit more since they're mostly being oxidized.

Of course, that's an extreme. Even then at 2g/lbs (the higher end) he'd only eat about 440 a day, which is still a $h1t-ton.

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Post by robertscott » Fri Dec 17, 2010 11:32 am

yeah Nightfall, I think you must've missed my post earlier. I spoke to him again and he apologised and said he'd got it wrong. He eats 200, like I said before his English ain't so good so I think that was probably the cause of the confusion.

While I agree 6 foot 2 and 220 isn't that big, because the guy's so lean it looks impressive as hell. He doesn't look like a bodybuilder so much as just a bit of a beast.

What sort of protein consumption do you go for? I've been thinking because I'm not as big as this guy and actually eat moreprotein than he does, I might even cut back a bit on the protein and increase my carbs.

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Post by NightFaLL » Fri Dec 17, 2010 11:40 am

If I were trying to gain weight I'd still aim for about 1g/lb, but that's pretty easy to get if you like meat, dairy, etc.

I'd rotate between high carb low fat on training days and high fat low carb on off days, keeping calories at maintenance-ish on off days and above on lifting days.

I'm really close to my genetic potential, though, so I'd do it to try to limit fat gains.

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bam
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Post by bam » Sat Dec 18, 2010 1:17 am

The textbook Sport Nutrition (2ed) has a nice little section covering "protein requirements for exercise"
strength athletes = 1.6-1.7g / kg bw / day
endurance athletes = 1.2-1.8g / kg bw / day
general population (sedentary) = 0.8g / kg bw / day
Also,
"In healthy people with no indication of kidney issues, there is no evidence that high protein intakes are dangerous. For most athletes the biggest danger of high protein intake is that it often comes at the cost of carbohydrate intake."
note: this book's 2nd edition was updated in 2010.

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Post by NightFaLL » Sat Dec 18, 2010 3:04 am

You can't set a protein requirement without having more information, such as:

Calorie Surplus/Deficit
Carb Intake
Type of Exercise
Goals

Higher calorie deficits require more protein, same with low-carb diets.

Certain exercises tend to burn more amino acids when done while on a caloric deficit or low-carb diet.

Also, whether you're wanting to build muscle or gain weight.

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bam
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Post by bam » Sat Dec 18, 2010 4:05 am

NightFaLL wrote:Certain exercises tend to burn more amino acids when done while on a caloric deficit or low-carb diet.
Whoa! Which exercises?

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Post by NightFaLL » Sat Dec 18, 2010 4:30 am

bam wrote:
NightFaLL wrote:Certain exercises tend to burn more amino acids when done while on a caloric deficit or low-carb diet.
Whoa! Which exercises?
Anything high intensity, typically. This is assuming a fairly heavy caloric deficit or very restricted carbs, though.

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Post by JoeB » Sat Dec 25, 2010 10:02 pm

I usually aim for 1.5grams/lb, but recently have dropped protein intake to a gram a pound and I am still doing good in the gym. I really wish I knew what was required to eat for optimal results.

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Post by Jungledoc » Sun Dec 26, 2010 8:12 am

NightFaLL wrote:
bam wrote:
NightFaLL wrote:Certain exercises tend to burn more amino acids when done while on a caloric deficit or low-carb diet.
Whoa! Which exercises?
Anything high intensity, typically. This is assuming a fairly heavy caloric deficit or very restricted carbs, though.
This is a new idea to me. Could you explain more, including how this was determined?

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Post by stuward » Sun Dec 26, 2010 9:30 am

This article is almost 10 years old and I have yet to see anything that contradicts it. http://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/414351
Most athletes are meeting or exceeding their protein requirements through diet. There are, however, some athletes at risk for inadequate protein. These individuals are typically restricting caloric intake in order to achieve a low body weight and generally include wrestlers, gymnasts, dancers, and runners.[1,5] Inadequate protein intake increases an athlete's risk for injury and chronic fatigue.
It's true that exercise causes muscle breakdown and protein is required to rebuild that muscle during recovery. It's also true that whole body exercises will cause more protein breakdown than isolation exercises, however, the total per workout is likely to be similar if you expend a similar amount of energy in each workout. Therefore, while you do need to make sure you get enough protein, it's the type of workout you do (strength or endurance), not the type of exercises you do that matters.

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Post by NightFaLL » Sun Dec 26, 2010 11:17 am

Jungledoc wrote:
NightFaLL wrote:
bam wrote: Whoa! Which exercises?
Anything high intensity, typically. This is assuming a fairly heavy caloric deficit or very restricted carbs, though.
This is a new idea to me. Could you explain more, including how this was determined?
I've read this multiple places...

What do you believe the energy source is in high intensity exercise if glycogen/glucose is not readily available?

Anything beyond the lactic threshold won't use fat for energy, AFAIK.

This is the reason, even though it's kind brosciency, that bodybuilders tend to go low intensity on cardio the closer they get to competition - because as you get leaner and/or cut calorie/carb intake, oxidation of amino acids becomes more prevalent in general.

Doing something high intensity is going to increase gluconeogenesis when carbs aren't available...

Maybe I've misunderstood? You are the doctor, after all ^_^



OH - and I should clarify, I meant high intensity cardio - not weight training.

High intensity weight training is REQUIRED to maintain muscle (by intensity, I mean % of 1RM)

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Post by nygmen » Wed Jan 05, 2011 9:26 pm

I probably get the most grams of protein a day of anyone that posts here. (and have been called an idiot for it. lol)

I get between 200-300g from shakes a day, depending on the day, and shoot for another 200 or so from solid food.

If I had the time to sit and eat I would do things the other way around, if not 100% from solid foods.

I see my best gains with protein around 400g, which is still less than 2g a lbs for me. If I ate 250g (bodyweight) and the rest in carbs and fat I would be a lard ass and make no muscular gains what-so-ever.

400 a day isn't outrageous, and 4 scoop shakes in 20oz of milk are not sludge in the slightest. I pay just under $10 a lbs for pure protein to be delivered to my door, and eat a lot of tuna, eggs, ground beef and cheap cuts of steak.

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Post by nygmen » Wed Jan 05, 2011 9:29 pm

NightFaLL wrote: and I'd venture to say I've got substantially more actual muscle mass than him.
How would you have any idea if this is true without pictures or any sort of solid numbers at all?

I mean, unless you are Flex Wheeler that is...

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Post by Jebus » Wed Jan 05, 2011 10:44 pm

How many shakes do you drink, nygmen?

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