Low Carb debate thread

Ask and answer questions, discuss research and applications

Moderators: Ironman, Jungledoc, ianjay, stuward

User avatar
beautyqueen
n00b
n00b
Posts: 4
Joined: Thu Jan 13, 2011 8:07 am
Contact:

Post by beautyqueen » Thu Jan 13, 2011 8:16 am

Well, I choose only foods which have Low or medium glycemic index. The low carbs diet don't work for me. High protein foods will trash your kidneys, and fatty diet (LOL) - well if there is any It'll be for anorexics.

User avatar
Jungledoc
moderator
moderator
Posts: 7578
Joined: Thu Feb 07, 2008 7:11 am
Location: Kudjip, Papua New Guinea

Post by Jungledoc » Thu Jan 13, 2011 8:32 am

beautyqueen wrote:Well, I choose only foods which have Low or medium glycemic index. The low carbs diet don't work for me. High protein foods will trash your kidneys, and fatty diet (LOL) - well if there is any It'll be for anorexics.
It would probably be better to start a regular thread, rather than start an argument in the stickies.

How, exactly, do high protein foods "trash your kidneys"? Not to put it harshly, but this is not only a myth, but a really dumb myth.

robertscott
Deific Wizard of Sagacity
Deific Wizard of Sagacity
Posts: 4424
Joined: Thu Apr 24, 2008 7:20 pm

Post by robertscott » Thu Jan 13, 2011 12:03 pm

i feel a spamming coming on...

User avatar
Ironman
Site Admin
Site Admin
Posts: 3991
Joined: Tue Jun 06, 2006 11:40 am

Post by Ironman » Fri Jan 14, 2011 3:28 am

There is no evidence for those silly assertions.

I also sense a spam coming on.

User avatar
frigginwizard
Junior Member
Junior Member
Posts: 226
Joined: Thu Jan 08, 2009 12:44 pm

Post by frigginwizard » Fri Jan 14, 2011 10:48 am

Ironman wrote:There is no evidence for those silly assertions.

I also sense a spam coming on.
what do you mean no evidence?? The more you use something, the faster it wears out. Thats why I avoid cardio.

User avatar
beautyqueen
n00b
n00b
Posts: 4
Joined: Thu Jan 13, 2011 8:07 am
Contact:

Proof

Post by beautyqueen » Fri Jan 14, 2011 11:04 am

Sense whatever you like, I'm a medical student sixth year and I know what I'm talking about. Using too much proteins and not importing carbohydrates leads to burning the proteins (in person the aminoacids). This rises the levels of amoniac which must be either remetabolised or excreted out of the body. Guess where goes the amoniac. Riiiiiight... in the urine... Guess what's producing the urine? Ofcourse the kidneys.... There's a diet - some french guy invented it (I can't remember the name now). The intensive care is full with kids who developed acute kidney failure after they've been 3-4 months on that diet.

P.S. By the way my first intention was to spam, I admit it! But I think this forum is worthy... So I won't even think of it. ;)
Last edited by beautyqueen on Fri Jan 14, 2011 11:14 am, edited 1 time in total.

NightFaLL
Member
Member
Posts: 778
Joined: Fri Nov 27, 2009 12:20 am

Re: Proof

Post by NightFaLL » Fri Jan 14, 2011 11:14 am

beautyqueen wrote:Sense whatever you like, I'm a medical student sixth year and I know what I'm talking about. Using too much proteins and not importing carbohydrates leads to burning the proteins (in person the aminoacids). This rises the levels of amoniac which must be either remetabolised or excreted out of the body. Guess where goes the amoniac. Riiiiiight... in the urine... Guess what's producing the urine? Ofcourse the kidneys....

P.S. By the way my first intention was to spam, I admit it! But I think this forum is worthy... So I won't even think of it. ;)
You paid for six years of college to learn absolutely nothing about nutrition, it seems.

You should brush up on that and I still think you're going to end up spamming.

Either way, you don't know what you're talking about.

User avatar
beautyqueen
n00b
n00b
Posts: 4
Joined: Thu Jan 13, 2011 8:07 am
Contact:

Re: Proof

Post by beautyqueen » Fri Jan 14, 2011 11:16 am

NightFaLL wrote:
beautyqueen wrote:Sense whatever you like, I'm a medical student sixth year and I know what I'm talking about. Using too much proteins and not importing carbohydrates leads to burning the proteins (in person the aminoacids). This rises the levels of amoniac which must be either remetabolised or excreted out of the body. Guess where goes the amoniac. Riiiiiight... in the urine... Guess what's producing the urine? Ofcourse the kidneys....

P.S. By the way my first intention was to spam, I admit it! But I think this forum is worthy... So I won't even think of it. ;)
You paid for six years of college to learn absolutely nothing about nutrition, it seems.

You should brush up on that and I still think you're going to end up spamming.

Either way, you don't know what you're talking about.
OK. If you say so... You have bigger practice in the clinics than me ;) I don't think I'm going to spam, that's your oppinion. We'll wait and we'll see. Complex carbohydrates and a decent protein intake plus exercises can do the job

NightFaLL
Member
Member
Posts: 778
Joined: Fri Nov 27, 2009 12:20 am

Re: Proof

Post by NightFaLL » Fri Jan 14, 2011 11:29 am

beautyqueen wrote:
NightFaLL wrote:
beautyqueen wrote:Sense whatever you like, I'm a medical student sixth year and I know what I'm talking about. Using too much proteins and not importing carbohydrates leads to burning the proteins (in person the aminoacids). This rises the levels of amoniac which must be either remetabolised or excreted out of the body. Guess where goes the amoniac. Riiiiiight... in the urine... Guess what's producing the urine? Ofcourse the kidneys....

P.S. By the way my first intention was to spam, I admit it! But I think this forum is worthy... So I won't even think of it. ;)
You paid for six years of college to learn absolutely nothing about nutrition, it seems.

You should brush up on that and I still think you're going to end up spamming.

Either way, you don't know what you're talking about.
OK. If you say so... You have bigger practice in the clinics than me ;) I don't think I'm going to spam, that's your oppinion. We'll wait and we'll see. Complex carbohydrates and a decent protein intake plus exercises can do the job
I never said it couldn't, you're saying that high protein intake causes kidney issues - which has been shown to be false by tons of studies.

Took 30 seconds to find a random study on pubmed that's tested and proved you wrong.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21194471
CONCLUSIONS: These studies demonstrate that protein-enriched meals replacements as compared to standard meal replacements recommended for weight management do not have adverse effects on routine measures of liver function, renal function or bone density at one year. clinicaltrial.gov: NCT01030354.
Just leave the forums, I can already tell you're not going to be welcome here.

User avatar
TimD
In Memoriam: TimD
In Memoriam: TimD
Posts: 3129
Joined: Mon Dec 19, 2005 8:04 am
Location: Va Beach, Va

Post by TimD » Fri Jan 14, 2011 11:32 am

This was a sticky posted by Aaron, for use as a quick reference. You guys want to debate the issue, start a new thread.
Tim

User avatar
Ironman
Site Admin
Site Admin
Posts: 3991
Joined: Tue Jun 06, 2006 11:40 am

Post by Ironman » Fri Jan 14, 2011 10:51 pm

Sense whatever you like, I'm a medical student sixth year and I know what I'm talking about.
That's the argument from authority fallacy. Your education is not evidence.
Using too much proteins and not importing carbohydrates leads to burning the proteins
Baseless assertion. It's also difficult to tell what you are trying to say. A possible translation error?
This rises the levels of amoniac which must be either remetabolised or excreted out of the body.
You have not established that there is any rise in ammonia. Therefore this statement is irrelevant.
The intensive care is full with kids who developed acute kidney failure after they've been 3-4 months on that diet.
Bull$h1t! There is nothing to substantiate that. There are also many people on the diet with no ill effects. Furthermore humans evolved eating a diet low in carbs most of the time. Grains in the diet has been a relatively recent development.


There is also a study showing that protein does not cause any problems for people with normal renal function. This was posted earlier by Nightfall.


Thank you for not spamming. Spam is a major pain in the a$$.

User avatar
Jungledoc
moderator
moderator
Posts: 7578
Joined: Thu Feb 07, 2008 7:11 am
Location: Kudjip, Papua New Guinea

Re: Proof

Post by Jungledoc » Sat Jan 15, 2011 9:20 am

beautyqueen wrote:Sense whatever you like, I'm a medical student sixth year and I know what I'm talking about. Using too much proteins and not importing carbohydrates leads to burning the proteins (in person the aminoacids). This rises the levels of amoniac which must be either remetabolised or excreted out of the body. Guess where goes the amoniac. Riiiiiight... in the urine... Guess what's producing the urine? Ofcourse the kidneys.... There's a diet - some french guy invented it (I can't remember the name now). The intensive care is full with kids who developed acute kidney failure after they've been 3-4 months on that diet.

P.S. By the way my first intention was to spam, I admit it! But I think this forum is worthy... So I won't even think of it. ;)
The fact that you are a medical student doesn't prove that high protein diets cause kidney damage. In fact, you're being a medical student doesn't impress me at all. I used to be a medical student, and I know first-hand what medical students are like. We had know-it-alls in my class, too, and they usually knew little. In the US, we receive 8 years of tertiary education prior to receiving our medical degree, so the 6th year part also leaves me unimpressed. I now teach medical students, and if one of my students ever made a silly claim like this, they would quickly find themselves with a lot of assigned reading, and a presentation on protein metabolism and renal physiology!

Now whether a protein-only, zero-fat, zero-carbohydrate diet can do kidney damage is probably open to debate. Who would ever design research to study such a ludicrous diet? A high-protein diet is not zero-fat or zero-carbohydrate. You said that "high protein foods will trash your kidneys." "High protein foods", not even "a high protein diet". So you are saying that meat will "trash your kidneys". Or egg whites--will they "trash your kidneys"? How about the whey protein shakes that so many of us take before our workouts and at other times--will they "trash your kidneys" too?

Which intensive care unit are you referring to? How many kids? Out of how many using the diet? Remember that a numerator is meaningless without a denominator. And what are the details of this diet that you don't even know the name of?

Making unsubstantiated claims in any setting is intellectually dishonest. Feeling that you can do so because you are a medical student is an embarrassment to the profession you aspire to join. And assuming that a forum such as this is filled with people who will be fooled by your claims betrays an arrogance that is most unbecoming. Tell us the truth--you got this idea about high-protein diets trashing the kidneys from the popular press, and not from medical school--right?

I challenge you to find even 3 references to studies that support your claim. If you have them I want to read them.

Velcropop
Apprentice
Apprentice
Posts: 173
Joined: Wed May 19, 2010 6:59 am
Location: Sydney

Post by Velcropop » Sat Jan 15, 2011 9:58 am

word

strathmeyer
Apprentice
Apprentice
Posts: 114
Joined: Wed Mar 15, 2006 3:55 pm
Location: Pittsburgh, PA
Contact:

Post by strathmeyer » Sat Jan 15, 2011 10:50 am

Wow, what did beautyqueen do to hurt you guys? It's almost as if being ridiculed and constantly correcting you guys isn't very much fun for other people.

Hint: the personal insults don't convince us of your viewpoint.

User avatar
TimD
In Memoriam: TimD
In Memoriam: TimD
Posts: 3129
Joined: Mon Dec 19, 2005 8:04 am
Location: Va Beach, Va

Post by TimD » Sat Jan 15, 2011 11:26 am

Well, I split the thing off the stickies, because Aaron wrote that piece for those interested in adopting a lowered carb style , and was meant for use as a quick reference. It was not meant to invite discussion on low carb vs high carb. That debate has been around for some time, and probably always will be, and to debate it is fine, but do it in it's separate thread, which is what we have now. I think what got the ire up in some of the others was the old thing about how high protein trashes the kidneys, which was probably started by the food processing company lobbyists, and how that person (beautyqueen) thought that as a med student, she was the end all-be all.
Tim

Post Reply