Must I take protein or not?

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Wouter
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Must I take protein or not?

Post by Wouter » Sun Sep 03, 2006 5:02 am

Hello, I'm 16 years old and I'm going to go for a 4-day split workout with an extra day of full-body workout (ABCDXEX). That way I can fill an entire week.

I'm going to do these exercices with only dumbbells and an EZ-curl bar because it's way to costly to go to a gym :

Monday

1) Pullover
2) Curl
3) Bent-over Row
4) Concentration Curl
5) Lying Row
6) Hammer Curl
7) Wrist Curl
8) Reverse Wrist Curl

Tuesday

1) Bench Press
2) Lying Triceps Extension
3) Incline Bench Press
4) One Arm Triceps Extension
5) Flyes
6) Wrist Curl
7) Reverse Wrist Curl

Wednesday

1) Lunge
2) Straight Back Straight Leg Deadlift
3) Side Lunge
4) Straight Leg Deadlift
5) Step-up
6) Hyperextension
7) Lying Leg Raise

Thursday

1) Shoulder Press
2) Single Leg Calf Raise
3) Lateral Raise
4) Single Leg Reverse Calf Raise
5) Rear Lateral Raise
6) Upright Row
7) Seated Calf Raise
8) Rear Delt Row
9) Arnold Press

Friday

Rest / Condition

Saturday

1) Curl
2) Lying Triceps Extension
3) Bench Press
4) Bent- ver Row
5) Side Lunge
6) Straight-leg Deadlift
7) Shoulder Press
8) Upright Row
9) Rear Delt Row

Sunday

Rest / Condition

My question was wether I should take extra protein or not because I'm afraid that I might lose muscles because of the heavy training (I'm going to do every exercise twice).

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Post by TimD » Sun Sep 03, 2006 8:49 am

I will comment only on the issue of protein. Will leave the exercise selection to those that are into split bodybuilding type of training. I am not.
Most sports nutritionists agree (somewhat-they vary slightly) that a person doing heavy training should have a protein input from approximately .08 gr/lb LEAN bodyweight to approx .08 gr ACTUAL bodyweight. (Could be a big difference depending, figure out your % bodyfat, then do the math and calculate your LBM (lean body mass in lbs)). That said, most americans get that pretty easily in their normal diet. If you are not, then you might consider supplementation.
Tim

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Post by Matt Z » Sun Sep 03, 2006 10:57 am

Consider investing in a regular straight barbell and a pull-up bar.

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Post by Ironman » Sun Sep 03, 2006 11:30 am

It would be a good idea, to take whey protein. Don't go very heavy or do many sets on the full body day, as it may affect your back workout on Monday. Those aren't the order of your exercises are they? By the way, if you really want to do twice a week, a 2 or 3 day split would be better. Or if you want to lift 5 days, try a 5 day split like
back
chest
shoulders and arms
quads, glutes/hips, calves
hams, inner thighs, abs

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Post by Wouter » Sun Sep 03, 2006 11:33 am

IRT to Matt Z:

I do have a pull-up bar but I have to much weight to use it properly: I can pull myself about 3 times up.

I could invest in a normal barbell but what would be the difference in training? Could I be able to train better if I have a barbell?

IRT Ironman:

This will be the order of my exercises, is it in the wrong order?

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Post by Wouter » Sun Sep 03, 2006 11:40 am

IRT TimD:

Does this mean that I should take 1,76g/kg (=0,8g/lb) for my lean bodyweight? I have approximately 17% fat for 69kg => lean bodyweight = 57,27kg?

So I should have at least 100,8g of protein a day?

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Post by TimD » Sun Sep 03, 2006 1:26 pm

Hi Wouter. Yep, your math is correct. shoot for that, but don't be worried about being too precise. Also, don't worry too nmuch if you over shoot it. Uless you're drowning yourself in it, it will cause no harm. And, for post work out, while it is not necessary, a good whey protei shake couldn't hurt, and it is quite convenient.
As to the EZ or regular bar, you can do most all things with the EZ bar, but it's main limitations are for benching and squating. Not quite wide enough, plus you can't really load up with as much weight.
Tim

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Post by Wouter » Sun Sep 03, 2006 1:33 pm

IRT to TimD:

I won't squat because that really, really hurts my knees and i have two dumbbells so I can do bench presses, ...
But after some time I'll buy the barbell because then I can change some of the exercises.

How much protein per 100g does a whey protein shake contain?
Or can i replace it with a yoghurt drink with 3g protein/100g?
Because protein drinks etc cost alot (atleast in my region), would it be bad if I got to less protein a day?

Thanks for the advice.

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Post by TimD » Sun Sep 03, 2006 1:54 pm

Well, I'm old school and prefer milk and yogurt (the straight plain stuff, not the sugared down concotions they sell mostly) and most of all cottage cheese and meats (very little carb, so if you're into carbs, get some from another source), but protein powders are very efficient, and most all much easily absorbed than meat. A protein shake's cost will vary. What you do is to go out and buy the powder, then mix it in water, juice, or milk. If you searh the websites, you'll find some decent whey powders that aren't all that expensive. I'd recommend staying awy from the premade ones that come in bottles. Those are very expensive. Also, when you buy powders, they come with scoops. Now, scoop size varys with brands, so just look on the labels, and it will list how many grams protein there are per serving, and how many scoops there are per serving. As scoop sizes vary, most are between 28 and about 35 gr/ scoop, but it's been a long time since I looked, so you're better off verifying that yourself by find a tub of powder, and looking on the label.
Tim

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Post by Matt Z » Sun Sep 03, 2006 4:42 pm

An EZ-curl bar is good for curls, reverse curls and triceps extensions, but a straight bar is better for just about everything else.

As for pull-ups, 3 reps is a good start. Just keep at it, and soon you'll be able to do 4, then 5, and so on. Then when you reach your target rep range, you can start adding weight using a dipping belt.

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Post by TimD » Sun Sep 03, 2006 5:35 pm

Matt I care to differ. I've done clean and press, snatches, roww, you name it on an EZ bar. It doesn't give me the width for a BP, but hey, it's not the implement you use, it's all about resistance. Could be rocks, barrels, etc. Progressive resistance training, and the guy does have DB's, which IMO, for most basic exercises, allow a greater ROM anyway. I see his only deficit with the EZ is suatting and maybe benching.
Tim

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Post by Matt Z » Sun Sep 03, 2006 10:15 pm

I never said he couldn't use an EZ-curl bar for cleans, rows, snatches, etc. I just said a straight bar would be better ... partly because a straight bars is normally longer (and therefore easier to ballance), and partly because you can load more plates on a straight bar.

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Post by Ironman » Mon Sep 04, 2006 1:33 am

Yes, there is a problem with the order. Never fatigue your arms before your torso is done. So on back day get all the rows and pullovers done before doing any curls. At that point you will notice your biceps are already mostly done and you won't need many sets. Same thing with chest and triceps. Finish your chest before you do triceps. If your triceps are cashed, your incline bech will suffer. The other 2 days are fine though. Really though, I wouldn't mix a 4 day with a full body.

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Post by Trillian » Mon Sep 04, 2006 7:49 am

Ironman wrote:Yes, there is a problem with the order. Never fatigue your arms before your torso is done. So on back day get all the rows and pullovers done before doing any curls. At that point you will notice your biceps are already mostly done and you won't need many sets. Same thing with chest and triceps. Finish your chest before you do triceps. If your triceps are cashed, your incline bech will suffer. The other 2 days are fine though. Really though, I wouldn't mix a 4 day with a full body.
Thats great advice for most, but I just wanted to chime in and say, dont limit yourself to your possibilities. For a shock, you could try doing biceps before back etc, and they'll be fried, abut nd on the next workout feel quite a bit stronger on those big exercises.
ACSM CPT

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Post by TimD » Mon Sep 04, 2006 8:22 am

Exactly,Trillian. One of the coaches I like best, Istvan Javorek, set up his complexes to do just what you described, shock, and puts the weakest links up front, and by the time you get to the heavy exercises, not much weight is needed. Example, complex ! with barbell
upright row X6, muscle snatch from floorX6, Cheerleader (back squat pushpress behind neck)X6, good morning X10, bent rowX10, all done back to back, no rest, same weight. Then, go on to squats and BP. Sounds very contrarian, I agree, but in a prep or accumulation mode, works better than I would have ever believed.
Tim

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