2011: Deadlifts, Grip and Presses Log Comments

Discuss online journals with trainers and training peers

Moderators: Ironman, Jungledoc, ianjay, stuward

Post Reply
_Wolf_
Apprentice
Apprentice
Posts: 193
Joined: Sat Oct 29, 2011 12:12 am
Location: Bombay, India
Contact:

Re: 2011: Deadlifts, Grip and Presses Log Comments

Post by _Wolf_ » Mon Nov 28, 2011 11:57 pm

Oscar_Actuary wrote:alright
Yeah, I can learn vthe idea of how to properly set up a good SDT framework, but the actual feel part to know what to do in a certain day would take some change of mentality.
Do you think it would still be worth while for me to have a framework of SDT, and maybe gain some "on the job feel training" to compliment it?
I think in the long run everyone will have to learn to stop doing "Routines" and to start "Training". Thinking on your feet will become integral to that but it will take time because you have to learn to gauge your body and the situation following just guidelines.

It's not difficult..it just takes some time. And trial and error is fine. For example, keeping this still restricted to SDT, you could set up a conservative base volume...then in Weeks 2 and 3 go completely ballistic and balls to the wall and hit an unnecessary unsustainable volume/workload/intensity...and then you will need to go back and set a new base volume in Week 4..so you'll make short leaps and eventually hit a wall. But, in this, hopefully, you'll learn how to leave "some" in the tank and build on whatever you do on a weekly basis.

With thinking on your feet, the other point (and nothing to do with SDT) is, lets say you have issues with Hip Mobility, okay? You introduce some drills, you do them as prescribed and we also introduce Overhead Squats. Now, you try doing these Overhead Squats for say 3 months..and they're just a "part" of your routine - you have them on Squat Day right at the beginning and you spend 10-15 minutes on this. So, after 3 months you suddenly realize that your form still sucks and you just aren't getting it.

So, without pre-programming this in, you come in for your usual squat day but you spend 2 hours ONLY working on Overhead Squats. You forget your preconceived notion of "I need to do this exercise then this exercise and then that and when blah blah" and you just dedicate one complete workout to Overhead Squats. You suddenly find yourself being able to really improve quality. So you decide the next workout and the one after that to do the same thing. This is ALL fine.

So now 3 workouts later you know you still need to work more on Overhead Squats because you're close to getting that perfect form but you're not there yet. So, you make a few changes. Instead of dedicating a whole workout to Overhead Squats, you decide to spend a huge bulk of your time on Overhead Squats and then you throw in Front Squats after that and work up to a relative 1RM (Relative 1RM Explanation: http://www.gustrength.com/newsletter:me ... l-training" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;) or within 90% of your 1RM for the next 4-5 weeks. In this time you perfect your Overhead Squat technique plus you are able to maintain your 1RM on the Front Squat (or Back Squat) thereby maintaining strength.

This is all thinking on your feet.

Oscar_Actuary
Veteren Member
Veteren Member
Posts: 2406
Joined: Tue Oct 19, 2010 1:12 pm

Re: 2011: Deadlifts, Grip and Presses Log Comments

Post by Oscar_Actuary » Tue Nov 29, 2011 12:27 am

thanks, man

I certainly see this to aspire toward

_Wolf_
Apprentice
Apprentice
Posts: 193
Joined: Sat Oct 29, 2011 12:12 am
Location: Bombay, India
Contact:

Re: 2011: Deadlifts, Grip and Presses Log Comments

Post by _Wolf_ » Tue Nov 29, 2011 7:34 am

Oscar_Actuary wrote:thanks, man

I certainly see this to aspire toward
:)

Learning new movements always requires some time and dedication but it can really help.

User avatar
Jungledoc
moderator
moderator
Posts: 7578
Joined: Thu Feb 07, 2008 7:11 am
Location: Kudjip, Papua New Guinea

Re: 2011: Deadlifts, Grip and Presses Log Comments

Post by Jungledoc » Tue Nov 29, 2011 8:16 am

I think I'm getting it.

Let's see if I understand a few things correctly.

You use a mesocycle of about 4 weeks, but I assume that this, like everything else is not set in stone, and subject to adjustments on your feet.

You have a 4-way "split", but you may vary the order, combine workouts, skip workouts, even do the same movement twice in a row.

The reps and sets every workout are decided by "feel" as you go through the workout.

You go to the gym basically knowing that this is going to be (for instance) a medium squat day. You look at what you did last medium squat day, and try to do a little more in 1 or more parameters. So next week, squat day may be heavy squat, and you refer to your last heavy day do guide progression?

For a new mesocycle you set a new base.

Right so far?

Do you have a macrocycle structure?
Our greatest fear should not be of failure, but of succeeding at things in life that don't really matter.--Francis Chan

_Wolf_
Apprentice
Apprentice
Posts: 193
Joined: Sat Oct 29, 2011 12:12 am
Location: Bombay, India
Contact:

Re: 2011: Deadlifts, Grip and Presses Log Comments

Post by _Wolf_ » Wed Nov 30, 2011 12:15 am

Jungledoc wrote:I think I'm getting it.

Let's see if I understand a few things correctly.

You use a mesocycle of about 4 weeks, but I assume that this, like everything else is not set in stone, and subject to adjustments on your feet.
I take it you are discussing MY training in particular and not everyone else's at GUS. As a general rule of thumb a Mesocycle can be anything - and for other members of GUS it is 6-8 weeks. For me, it's 4 weeks. This rarely changes.

You have a 4-way "split", but you may vary the order, combine workouts, skip workouts, even do the same movement twice in a row.
No. I have a 4 day workout and it doesn't change in order and I don't combine workouts and I don't skip workouts unless I have to (for example, sometimes I have to work till really late like 11 pm or so in which case the gym is closed so I cannot workout). I do not do the same movement twice in a row.
My template/routine can be found out here: http://www.gustrength.com/forum/t-41405 ... ont-squats" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;


The reps and sets every workout are decided by "feel" as you go through the workout.
This depends. There are general guidelines for every lift. Whether I choose to do something as per the books is one thing. I'll give you two scenarios.

Scenario 1: Eric has asked me to do 4 doubles for Deadlifts.
I go in, do 475x2, feels good. So I do 485x2. Feels okay but I think I can pull something strange off. I do 495x2. Now, I feel like doing a single because I believe that I can. So...500x1. Now, because I went off the map, do I do another double or call it a day and come in next week and build on this? I call it a day. I leave some in the tank and I come back next week and add another double to this.

Scenario 2: Same scenario as above, except I stick to the rules and I do only 4 doubles. Now, the following week I try to progress but I'm not able to (not in terms of weight) so I do a single with 500 at the end. Thats on me and its fine.


You go to the gym basically knowing that this is going to be (for instance) a medium squat day. You look at what you did last medium squat day, and try to do a little more in 1 or more parameters. So next week, squat day may be heavy squat, and you refer to your last heavy day do guide progression?

Basically, yes.

For a new mesocycle you set a new base.

No. It depends on the lift. For lifts like cable rows, cable pull throughs, etc this need not be but for exercises where I am more advanced like Deadlifts and Front Squats it ends up being like this.

Do you have a macrocycle structure?

We don't plan so far ahead. 1-2 Mesocycles at a time. everything is a tool. Somewhere down the line I might feel that my mobility is being compromised so we will attack that using drills, overhead squats, etc (mobility is just an example).

I would say that 30% of our training is planned, and then 70% is thinking on our feet.

Umm..yes and no. My comments are in green above.

_Wolf_
Apprentice
Apprentice
Posts: 193
Joined: Sat Oct 29, 2011 12:12 am
Location: Bombay, India
Contact:

Re: 2011: Deadlifts, Grip and Presses Log Comments

Post by _Wolf_ » Sat Dec 03, 2011 12:30 pm

DEADLIFT Training - Mesocycle 40 Week 1

Worked up to 500 on regular Deadlifts and then moved to Deficit Deadlifts.

Video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YiCCG6slNR4" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

EricTroy
n00b
n00b
Posts: 6
Joined: Thu Nov 10, 2011 9:15 am
Contact:

Re: 2011: Deadlifts, Grip and Presses Log Comments

Post by EricTroy » Sat Dec 03, 2011 5:16 pm

I would say that 30% of our training is planned, and then 70% is thinking on our feet.
I would say that it's all planning and all thinking on your feet. That is, your plan is always flexible within certain parameters so that every aspect of the plan, to some extent, is subject to on the ground training, within certain restrictions. The difference between that and what most people are used to is that most strength training plans are nothing more than a set of rules to abide by. So what seems like a list of strength training ingredients becomes a list of restrictions that hem you in and do not allow you to react to your true preparedness on any given day.

_Wolf_
Apprentice
Apprentice
Posts: 193
Joined: Sat Oct 29, 2011 12:12 am
Location: Bombay, India
Contact:

Re: 2011: Deadlifts, Grip and Presses Log Comments

Post by _Wolf_ » Sun Dec 04, 2011 1:45 am

EricTroy wrote: I would say that it's all planning and all thinking on your feet. That is, your plan is always flexible within certain parameters so that every aspect of the plan, to some extent, is subject to on the ground training, within certain restrictions. The difference between that and what most people are used to is that most strength training plans are nothing more than a set of rules to abide by. So what seems like a list of strength training ingredients becomes a list of restrictions that hem you in and do not allow you to react to your true preparedness on any given day.
This is true. Very true.

User avatar
stuward
moderator
moderator
Posts: 6600
Joined: Sat Mar 10, 2007 5:44 pm
Location: Halifax, NS

Re: 2011: Deadlifts, Grip and Presses Log Comments

Post by stuward » Sun Dec 04, 2011 9:03 am

In the Army we say that no plan survives first contact. The concept is the same. You must plan but as soon as the plan doesn't work you have to adjust to the reality of the situation. The plan gives you the foundation to adjust from.
Stu Ward
_________________
Let thy food be thy medicine, and thy medicine be thy food.~Hippocrates
Strength is the adaptation that leads to all other adaptations that you really care about - Charles Staley
_________________
Thanks TimD

_Wolf_
Apprentice
Apprentice
Posts: 193
Joined: Sat Oct 29, 2011 12:12 am
Location: Bombay, India
Contact:

Re: 2011: Deadlifts, Grip and Presses Log Comments

Post by _Wolf_ » Sun Dec 04, 2011 9:11 am

stuward wrote:In the Army we say that no plan survives first contact. The concept is the same. You must plan but as soon as the plan doesn't work you have to adjust to the reality of the situation. The plan gives you the foundation to adjust from.
That sums it up really well :)

Funny you mention the Army...

_Wolf_
Apprentice
Apprentice
Posts: 193
Joined: Sat Oct 29, 2011 12:12 am
Location: Bombay, India
Contact:

Re: 2011: Deadlifts, Grip and Presses Log Comments

Post by _Wolf_ » Sun Dec 04, 2011 10:18 am

SQUAT Training - Mesocycle 40 Week 1

Did Back Squats after 10-11 months....Worked up to 325 for a single (relative 1RM) and then worked in the 90-97% range.

Video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I1XfY4Si2y8" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

_Wolf_
Apprentice
Apprentice
Posts: 193
Joined: Sat Oct 29, 2011 12:12 am
Location: Bombay, India
Contact:

Re: 2011: Deadlifts, Grip and Presses Log Comments

Post by _Wolf_ » Sun Dec 04, 2011 1:28 pm

New Template is up here: http://www.gustrength.com/forum/t-41955 ... st-1320675" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I'll copy paste it here:

Eric's helped me with this new template. We're not going with what I had written out earlier: it was framed with a bodybuilder mentality and this is one of those times when my mentor drops the tiny rule of "make sure you do all your heavy lifting as often as possible" which pretty much has me wondering how I could've overlooked something so integral to getting stronger.

So yes, this is the new TEMPLATE:

Saturday = DL + DL Variation

Sunday = SQ Variation + to be decided

Monday = Gripper Training

Tuesday = PC + Rowing

Wednesday = Left over stuff

Thursday = Off

Friday = Off

The rest of the details are in the link :-)

Oscar_Actuary
Veteren Member
Veteren Member
Posts: 2406
Joined: Tue Oct 19, 2010 1:12 pm

Re: 2011: Deadlifts, Grip and Presses Log Comments

Post by Oscar_Actuary » Sun Dec 04, 2011 2:08 pm

I'm curious about Squats the day after Deads, in light of Eric's reply on GUS. Well, I gues it makes sense if you are not training Squats, but only focused on Deadlifts.

enjoy reading your thoughts

_Wolf_
Apprentice
Apprentice
Posts: 193
Joined: Sat Oct 29, 2011 12:12 am
Location: Bombay, India
Contact:

Re: 2011: Deadlifts, Grip and Presses Log Comments

Post by _Wolf_ » Sun Dec 04, 2011 2:20 pm

Oscar_Actuary wrote:I'm curious about Squats the day after Deads, in light of Eric's reply on GUS. Well, I gues it makes sense if you are not training Squats, but only focused on Deadlifts.

enjoy reading your thoughts
Yes, that is it...I am not focusing on Squats aggressively. Not right now atleast.

:-)

EricTroy
n00b
n00b
Posts: 6
Joined: Thu Nov 10, 2011 9:15 am
Contact:

Re: 2011: Deadlifts, Grip and Presses Log Comments

Post by EricTroy » Sun Dec 04, 2011 2:30 pm

I'm curious about Squats the day after Deads, in light of Eric's reply on GUS. Well, I guess it makes sense if you are not training Squats, but only focused on Deadlifts.
The conversation that Ashiem and I had about his template got garbled in terms of what he said I said and what I replied that I had said so don't take any of that too seriously.

Post Reply