Andy's Journal Comments

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Re: Andy's Journal Comments

Post by Jungledoc » Sat Dec 10, 2011 8:28 am

So I'm continuing my discussion with Ashiem.

Well, as I said, my goals haven't changed in 6 years. To maximize my strength. That's why I paid attention to this in the first place.

I'm not so sure that the honeymoon period applies to me. I've been lifting for about 6 years, seriously for 4-5, focusing on form and programming. I don't intend to change my main lifts, just to train them differently. DL, bench, squat and press, with chinups and rowing close behind. Actually I'd prioritize chins above press. Those have been my lifts for quite a while now, with anything else I do intended to either supplement or improve those.

So the goals and main lifts are settled. At the moment I'd like to emphasize DL, and that's what I'd consider for singles scene. I'm thinking bench and squat with SDT, and press in maintenance.
Our greatest fear should not be of failure, but of succeeding at things in life that don't really matter.--Francis Chan

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Re: Andy's Journal Comments

Post by _Wolf_ » Sat Dec 10, 2011 2:11 pm

Jungledoc wrote:So I'm continuing my discussion with Ashiem.

Well, as I said, my goals haven't changed in 6 years. To maximize my strength. That's why I paid attention to this in the first place.

I'm not so sure that the honeymoon period applies to me. I've been lifting for about 6 years, seriously for 4-5, focusing on form and programming. I don't intend to change my main lifts, just to train them differently. DL, bench, squat and press, with chinups and rowing close behind. Actually I'd prioritize chins above press. Those have been my lifts for quite a while now, with anything else I do intended to either supplement or improve those.

So the goals and main lifts are settled. At the moment I'd like to emphasize DL, and that's what I'd consider for singles scene. I'm thinking bench and squat with SDT, and press in maintenance.
You want to emphasize Deadlifts right now, huh? Hmmm....

Well, I am not knowledgeable about the gym you have to train at - what equipment do you have at your disposal?

You don't need the Honeymoon Period - you're right.

What days are available to you, what stuff can you do, do you have injuries/concerns, etc?

Bench and Squat SDT is fine....

I am thinking (broadly) something like DL / SQ + BP / Off / DL Assistance / SQ + OHP / Off / Off / Repeat but this is very broad.

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Re: Andy's Journal Comments

Post by Oscar_Actuary » Sat Dec 10, 2011 3:24 pm

the force is strong

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Re: Andy's Journal Comments

Post by Jungledoc » Sat Dec 10, 2011 7:52 pm

Yeah, I'm thinking about schedule. I have mostly done a 3/week schedule. I tried 4/week a while back, and got pretty burned out, but there were several factors, including increasing frequency of some lifts. I have had a 4-workout schedule, so one cycle might go m-w-sa-m, and the next w-sa-m-w. My schedule makes 4/wk a bit difficult. Wed is always available, Sat is usually, but I have to work one every few weeks. Monday I'm on call less often than other weekdays, so M-W-Sa usually works out well, with occasional adjustments for work, or for the effects of a bad night on call the night before. If I do 4, I want to be sure to have 2 off days together before the DL day. I used to do M-W-Th-Sa, but there is no 2-day break there. Tu-W-F-Sa might work, but there would be more frequent work interruptions. I've been happy with Sq and DL every 10 days or so, with assistance work for both of them staggered half-way in between. Bench has gotten a heavy day and a medium day each 10 day cycle, and that has gone well.

For a 3-day schedule, what would you think of DL/off/Sq+bench+chins/off/DL assist+OHP+row/off/off?

Our gym is a tin shack in the jungle. We have oly barbells and about 400 or 450 pounds of weight, plate loaded dumbbells that we can load up to maybe 120. There's a multi-station cable machine that is broken, but replacement cables have come, so when someone gets the time to work on it, it will be back. It's good for cable rows, facepulls, etc. I don't use it for anything else. There's a rumor that Santa is bringing a set of bands this way. We have a bench press bench and an old, not very strong rack. It's OK for me, but I wouldn't suggest you use it! So pretty much everything I need for the basics. See this link for a video I made a few months ago of our gym, and the station where we live.

I haven't had any major injuries, but I've had a few periods of time when back soreness put me off lifting to some degree, usually a week or two off, then a few weeks without full squat or DL, sometimes just doing rack pulls, or only single-leg work. It is not progressive. I've also corrected some habits at work that were making it worse. It never hurts to lift, only nagging soreness later.
Our greatest fear should not be of failure, but of succeeding at things in life that don't really matter.--Francis Chan

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Re: Andy's Journal Comments

Post by Jungledoc » Sat Dec 10, 2011 8:20 pm

Playing with ideas to stretch a 4-workout schedule longer than 1 week, and maintain the flexibility that I need for work and recovery from nights on call:
m-w-sa-su or m-w-f-sa, then
w-th-sa-m or w-f-sa-m, then
f-sa-m-w or f-sa-tu-w, then
sa-m-w-fr or sa-m-w-f, then start over.

Basically, I'd just lift every other day most of the time, allowing subsequent days once per microcycle, and waiting at least 2 days before hitting day 1 of a new microcycle. I'd try to make sure that the microcycle stretched over no more than 10 days. That would also allow me to "think on my feet" in terms of fatigue, and possible need to wait an extra day once in a while. You are aware that I'm 58, right?
Our greatest fear should not be of failure, but of succeeding at things in life that don't really matter.--Francis Chan

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Re: Andy's Journal Comments

Post by Oscar_Actuary » Sun Dec 11, 2011 1:53 am

deleted nonsense
Last edited by Oscar_Actuary on Sun Dec 11, 2011 5:43 pm, edited 3 times in total.

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Re: Andy's Journal Comments

Post by _Wolf_ » Sun Dec 11, 2011 1:54 am

Jungledoc wrote:Playing with ideas to stretch a 4-workout schedule longer than 1 week, and maintain the flexibility that I need for work and recovery from nights on call:
m-w-sa-su or m-w-f-sa, then
w-th-sa-m or w-f-sa-m, then
f-sa-m-w or f-sa-tu-w, then
sa-m-w-fr or sa-m-w-f, then start over.

Basically, I'd just lift every other day most of the time, allowing subsequent days once per microcycle, and waiting at least 2 days before hitting day 1 of a new microcycle. I'd try to make sure that the microcycle stretched over no more than 10 days. That would also allow me to "think on my feet" in terms of fatigue, and possible need to wait an extra day once in a while. You are aware that I'm 58, right?
Yes, I am aware. Hahaha. Yes yes. Your plan is sound though....just leave it open. Have a 4 day workout and let it rollover as per how you need or want it to. It does not need to be set in stone. As long as you don't push it too much, this type of frequency will help you.

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Re: Andy's Journal Comments

Post by Jungledoc » Sun Dec 11, 2011 3:04 am

Well, then I'll go with 4-day. How about:

DL (ss)
SQ (SDT) + BP (SDT) + chins (volume)
DL Assistance (deficit and/or rack pull--and my bands may come sometime)+?row?
PC + OHP + chins (weighted)
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Re: Andy's Journal Comments

Post by Jungledoc » Mon Dec 12, 2011 9:59 pm

Still thinking. Tomorrow is what I've planned as the first lifting day of the new cycle.

DL--should I do something preparatory before doing SS? Although I feel like I've been doing a preparatory something for years, and I'd like to get on with it.
SDT--I'm assuming that I will start with 3x5 or 3x4, with a weight that I think I can lift with one or 2 in the tank, do my reps and sets as planned the first week, then progress them via s,d, or t progression.
Maintenance--i.e. press--3x5 with a weight that isn't easy, but not pushing it too hard, then only minimal progression, e.g. single, for this cycle or two.
Cycle length--I'm used to 4 microcycles of 4 workouts per macrocycle on 5/3/1, and I'm reasonably comfortable with that. Any reason to do otherwise?
Our greatest fear should not be of failure, but of succeeding at things in life that don't really matter.--Francis Chan

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Re: Andy's Journal Comments

Post by _Wolf_ » Mon Dec 12, 2011 11:22 pm

Jungledoc wrote:Still thinking. Tomorrow is what I've planned as the first lifting day of the new cycle.

DL--should I do something preparatory before doing SS? Although I feel like I've been doing a preparatory something for years, and I'd like to get on with it.
SDT--I'm assuming that I will start with 3x5 or 3x4, with a weight that I think I can lift with one or 2 in the tank, do my reps and sets as planned the first week, then progress them via s,d, or t progression.
Maintenance--i.e. press--3x5 with a weight that isn't easy, but not pushing it too hard, then only minimal progression, e.g. single, for this cycle or two.
Cycle length--I'm used to 4 microcycles of 4 workouts per macrocycle on 5/3/1, and I'm reasonably comfortable with that. Any reason to do otherwise?
Post on GUS actually.

Ummmm...

I looked at your template.

DL (ss)
SQ (SDT) + BP (SDT) + chins (volume)
DL Assistance (deficit and/or rack pull--and my bands may come sometime)+?row?
PC + OHP + chins (weighted)

You should just do SS on DL - work up to that relative max and then do single with more than 90% of that.

for SQ SDT and BP SDT I would start with a Base Volume of 2 sets of 4 reps. That gives you plenty of room to progress on.

DL assistance I still need to think about. I think you need to have some PC work here.

Basically your last 2 days I am gonna give some thoughts to. You should have some unilateral work in there as well - on these last two days.

Let me think on this.

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Re: Andy's Journal Comments

Post by Jungledoc » Wed Dec 21, 2011 3:16 am

If you're interested I've completely restructured my training template. Thanks to Ashiem, who helped me in a major way with this. Note that this is not a canned workout, but a template build on some basic principles and ideas that Ashiem, Eric and Joe teach over on the GUS forum. It's build around my personal priorities and preferences. I'm planning on cycles of a few weeks each with only minor adjustments from time to time. Right now the DL is my priority lift, with bench and squat emphasized less and press on maintenance. I always want to keep lots of pulling in my program.

Workout 1: Deadlifts

Deadlifts using Singles Scene

Workout 2: Squats and Bench

Back Squats - SDT @ BV of 2 sets x 4 reps
Bench Press - SDT @ BV of 2 sets x 4 reps
Chin-ups - Whatever you feel - progress via adding to the overall volume here

Workout 3: DL Assistance

Snatch Grip Deadlifts - 3-4 sets of 4-7 reps (you can start off conservatively for an easy 3 sets x 4 reps and then using SDT you can build volume to 4 sets x 7 reps or whatever)
Rowing work

Workout 4: PC + OHP

Cable Pullthroughs - 3-4 sets of 10-15 reps
Overhead Press - Whatever you feel like
Weighted Chin-ups - whatever you feel like

There are a lot of ways to progress on a lift, and this template uses 3. "Singles scene" refers to a way of working heavy singles. You work up to the heaviest single you can manage with good form (called a "relative max"). Then you try to get several singles that are 90% or more of that weight, with plenty of rest between reps. You cycle the number of reps through the cycle. If it's a bad day, you have missed sleep, haven't eaten well or whatever, your RM won't be as high as it might be on a better day, so you're not straining away at a rigidly-determined percent of a previous 1RM. You would only do this for one lift at a time, do it on the first day of your cycle with at least a couple of days rest.

"SDT" refers to "Single, Double, Triple", and just means that I'll either add reps, sets or weight to the lifts each week, or combinations of those. When you're at the point that you can't go on adding weight to the bar every time, you can still add a rep or 2 or add a set of a few reps, or add weight to just one of the sets. Sometimes you can do 2 or those things, and occasionally you can do all 3.

On the lifts where progression isn't mentioned, either they are just maintenance, and I'll pretty do the same thing each time for a few weeks, or there will be single progression.

As it turns out, contrary to Oscar's worst fears, GUS isn't actually a cult that kidnaps and brainwashes innocent wannabe strong people. It's a no-nonsense collection of thoughtful articles and blog posts and a forum. It's completely non-commercial; no fees, no products to sell. There are adds on the site, but they have nothing to do with GUS. The people there are friendly, but they discourage social chit-chat. There's nothing like "Random Crap". Their general forum section still is used to discuss training issues.

There is no "my way is the only way" or "I have training secrets that no one else knows" attitudes. Eric writes most of the articles. He has a prodigious knowledge of training and physiology, and presumable of nutrition, though I'm still reading training articles, and haven't gotten to the nutrition stuff yet. He doesn't just bash everyone else on the internet--he has a lot of people that he refers to, including many of the well-known "gurus". There are a few that he seems to have little time for. When he disagrees, he always gives a well-reasoned argument. I'm not leaving here--I like random crap! And Oscar--they don't have anything like Oscar over there.
Our greatest fear should not be of failure, but of succeeding at things in life that don't really matter.--Francis Chan

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Re: Andy's Journal Comments

Post by stuward » Wed Dec 21, 2011 9:45 am

Jungledoc wrote:... And Oscar--they don't have anything like Oscar over there.
:withstupid:
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Re: Andy's Journal Comments

Post by Oscar_Actuary » Wed Dec 21, 2011 11:48 am

stuward wrote:
Jungledoc wrote:... And Oscar--they don't have anything like Oscar over there.
:withstupid:
not sure how to take this, but its funny every way

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Re: Andy's Journal Comments

Post by _Wolf_ » Wed Dec 21, 2011 1:57 pm

Why cult though??? Hahhahaha

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Re: Andy's Journal Comments

Post by Jungledoc » Wed Dec 21, 2011 4:32 pm

Oscar_Actuary wrote:
stuward wrote:
Jungledoc wrote:... And Oscar--they don't have anything like Oscar over there.
:withstupid:
not sure how to take this, but its funny every way

********

Once in the cult, one ceases to see the brainwashing, even sympathizing with his captors. Soon you’ll be robbing a branch of the Hibernia Bank.
Yeah, but the only thing I'll steal is anything real heavy (large bags of money?) that I can clean and press.
_Wolf_ wrote:Why cult though??? Hahhahaha
I'M not saying it's a cult--Oscar is just worried about me! :grin:
Our greatest fear should not be of failure, but of succeeding at things in life that don't really matter.--Francis Chan

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