2012: Absolute Force Production Discussion

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_Wolf_
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2012: Absolute Force Production Discussion

Post by _Wolf_ » Sun Jan 01, 2012 6:42 am

Hi everyone,

Just opening up this discussion log. If y'all want: you can comment directly on my log as well. It's fine with me :-)

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Re: 2012: Absolute Force Production Discussion

Post by Oscar_Actuary » Sun Jan 01, 2012 6:55 am

seeing Squats the day after Deadlifts leads me to ask

and rather than write up my own guess to your thoughts, I'd like you to expand on why you do this in light of conventional wisdom

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Re: 2012: Absolute Force Production Discussion

Post by _Wolf_ » Sun Jan 01, 2012 7:16 am

DEADLIFT Training - Mesocycle 41 Week 1

Graduated Deadlift Struggle Sets: http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=pl ... g5JOXdXQwk" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

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Re: 2012: Absolute Force Production Discussion

Post by _Wolf_ » Mon Jan 02, 2012 1:34 pm

SQUAT Training - Mesocycle 41 Week 1

Worked up to 355 on Back Squats: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0gf-thRbTWQ" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

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Re: 2012: Absolute Force Production Discussion

Post by Oscar_Actuary » Mon Jan 02, 2012 11:02 pm

Did you mean to ignore me?

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Re: 2012: Absolute Force Production Discussion

Post by _Wolf_ » Tue Jan 03, 2012 1:31 am

No no...I didn't see your post. My apologies. I'll respond shortly. Using my phone right now.

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Re: 2012: Absolute Force Production Discussion

Post by _Wolf_ » Tue Jan 03, 2012 1:55 am

What is wrong with Squats after Deadlifts? By that same token I'm also Deadlifting twice a week sometimes...both heavy. So? Actually, on some weeks I'm doing Heavy Deadlifts Twice, Squats Once and Overhead Squats. So thats like 4 huge movers. So?

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Re: 2012: Absolute Force Production Discussion

Post by Oscar_Actuary » Tue Jan 03, 2012 3:17 am

Oscar_Actuary wrote:seeing Squats the day after Deadlifts leads me to ask
and rather than write up my own guess to your thoughts, I'd like you to expand on why you do this in light of conventional wisdom
_Wolf_ wrote:What is wrong with Squats after Deadlifts? By that same token I'm also Deadlifting twice a week sometimes...both heavy. So? Actually, on some weeks I'm doing Heavy Deadlifts Twice, Squats Once and Overhead Squats. So thats like 4 huge movers. So?
That's really the best answer you can give me?
Being ignored may have been the better option

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Re: 2012: Absolute Force Production Discussion

Post by _Wolf_ » Tue Jan 03, 2012 7:55 am

Oscar_Actuary wrote:That's really the best answer you can give me?
Being ignored may have been the better option
Well, no. I am actually asking you why are Squats bad after Deadlifts. I'm not being a smartass. Why is this an issue? Seriously.

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Re: 2012: Absolute Force Production Discussion

Post by stuward » Tue Jan 03, 2012 8:27 am

I can answer. You guys are coming at this from 2 different ends so you're not getting each other's point. In a conventional program, you want to ensure that your back is fresh before you do squats, therefore you don't squat after deadlifts and you don't squat 2 days in a row. In a high volume routine that you have progressed up to, as in this case, that goes out the window. Squatting in a chronically fatigued state gives you a stimulus that's hard to get otherwise, but it's an advanced technique that's not for everyone.
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Re: 2012: Absolute Force Production Discussion

Post by _Wolf_ » Tue Jan 03, 2012 8:33 am

stuward wrote:I can answer. You guys are coming at this from 2 different ends so you're not getting each other's point. In a conventional program, you want to ensure that your back is fresh before you do squats, therefore you don't squat after deadlifts and you don't squat 2 days in a row. In a high volume routine that you have progressed up to, as in this case, that goes out the window. Squatting in a chronically fatigued state gives you a stimulus that's hard to get otherwise, but it's an advanced technique that's not for everyone.
I don't do a high volume routine.

I know his point was to say that if you Squat after your Deadlifts you are doing so in a "fatigued" state.

BUT, Fatigue is extremely complex. It isn't just one workout that makes a difference. It's the whole layout which distributes fatigue.

I am doing Squats (which is very low in volume because I only do some heavy singles/doubles/triples) because it optimizes volume and allows me to focus on Deadlifts (which is the goal) and PC work.

I wasn't being a smartass. My point is that there are circular referencing statements.

We just had a little thread on this at GUS actually....Let me bring it up: http://www.gustrength.com/forum/t-42317 ... nking-post" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

You cannot deadlift very often because the deadlift is too hard on the body.

This is circular reasoning.

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Re: 2012: Absolute Force Production Discussion

Post by stuward » Tue Jan 03, 2012 9:13 am

Sorry, I said high volume but I meant high frequency, as in you don't wait for "super compensation" before you train the movement again. Yes fatigue is extremely complex and you and Cliff are at different ends of the spectrum on it.
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Re: 2012: Absolute Force Production Discussion

Post by Oscar_Actuary » Tue Jan 03, 2012 11:09 am

_Wolf_ wrote:I know his point was to say that if you Squat after your Deadlifts you are doing so in a "fatigued" state.

BUT, Fatigue is extremely complex. It isn't just one workout that makes a difference. It's the whole layout which distributes fatigue.
thanks for a more complete answer.



Stuward,
Who's Cliff?

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Re: 2012: Absolute Force Production Discussion

Post by stuward » Tue Jan 03, 2012 11:22 am

Oscar_Actuary wrote:
_Wolf_ wrote:I know his point was to say that if you Squat after your Deadlifts you are doing so in a "fatigued" state.

BUT, Fatigue is extremely complex. It isn't just one workout that makes a difference. It's the whole layout which distributes fatigue.
thanks for a more complete answer.



Stuward,
Who's Cliff?
Sorry Clint. :red:
PS, my name is Stu, not Stuward.
Stu Ward
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Let thy food be thy medicine, and thy medicine be thy food.~Hippocrates
Strength is the adaptation that leads to all other adaptations that you really care about - Charles Staley
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Re: 2012: Absolute Force Production Discussion

Post by Oscar_Actuary » Tue Jan 03, 2012 12:14 pm

stuward wrote: Sorry Clint. :red:
PS, my name is Stu, not Stuward.
lol, I knew. :joker:

and thanks for mediating!

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