Feedback sought on new program

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Oscar_Actuary
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Re: Feedback sought on new program

Post by Oscar_Actuary » Mon Apr 02, 2012 10:49 am

so exactly how much assistance should he do on this 531 program Robert_S ?
my goodness.

Ozzy,
I 2nd Rob_t_us saying to stick with some linear progression for awhile 531 is too slow for weaklings.

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Re: Feedback sought on new program

Post by robertscott » Mon Apr 02, 2012 11:29 am

Oscar_Actuary wrote:so exactly how much assistance should he do on this 531 program Robert_S ?
my goodness.

Ozzy,
I 2nd Rob_t_us saying to stick with some linear progression for awhile 531 is too slow for weaklings.
if he does it like I said he'll be doing 5 exercises a session, 6 at the most. Do you really think that's too much? Really?

And don't worry about the small increments on the 5/3/1, you can still progress linearly on the assistance pressing exercises, rows, chins etc

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Re: Feedback sought on new program

Post by Oscar_Actuary » Mon Apr 02, 2012 12:47 pm

I thought for 531, 5 lifts in addton to the main was a bit much. I dont think he is doing the BB route. But I may have miscounted and yeah, 5 is not crazy.

I also thought a bit faster progression on the MAIN LIFTS would be good for a beginner

I think you have one size fits all -itis Robert_S.

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Re: Feedback sought on new program

Post by robertscott » Mon Apr 02, 2012 3:17 pm

Oscar_Actuary wrote:I thought for 531, 5 lifts in addton to the main was a bit much. I dont think he is doing the BB route. But I may have miscounted and yeah, 5 is not crazy.
also, when you consider that three of the lifts are isolation, it's really not that much.
Oscar_Actuary wrote:I also thought a bit faster progression on the MAIN LIFTS would be good for a beginner
perhaps, but the main lifts are not the only measure of progress.
Oscar_Actuary wrote:I think you have one size fits all -itis Robert_S.
perhaps, but damn i get results!

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Re: Feedback sought on new program

Post by robt-aus » Mon Apr 02, 2012 5:20 pm

ozzy wrote:Rob- I still want to do conditioning twice a week at least, even if that is at the expense of maximum muscle growth. Do it after a lift and have 3 rest days? Or do it in the AM on lifting days?? Also you recommend less volume for growth?? It bears saying that the 5x15 is high volume/less intensity. Does that alter your opinion at all?
...
Based on your stated lifting experience you're likely to make significant gains regardless of the exercises you select, as long as you eat and rest adequately. My emphasis was on including more rest. I suggested the light cardio day as I feel conditioning is the activity that would make the smallest contribution to strength and hypertrophy, and light cardio can be active rest - it's not a great way to provoke adaptation. For scheduling, either option (after an upper body day or AM) could work. Try and see. I, and you, don't know how you'll respond until you give it a shot.

I do think lower volume, higher weight would be better for strength (your first goal) and hypertrophy (your second). If you'd said growth first, I would have suggested 3x10-12. I defer to the far more knowledgeable people here for exercise selection and hypertrophy - I can't really talk about that stuff. After my summer of training i'm several kilos lighter, my arms and legs are thinner, and I eat fat and carbs like they're going out of style. I do not train for appearance or size. However my resting heart rate is now in the low 50's, my blood pressure when last measured was 120/80 and my life is quite wonderful. Go figure.

If you take a three month view you could program strength for a month, growth for a month then endurance/cardio for a month, then repeat. You already appear to know training all three at once can reduce progress.

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ozzy
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Feedback sought on new program

Post by ozzy » Mon Apr 02, 2012 7:47 pm

Ok. I might superset on my upper body days and add in trap bar shrugs on day 1 and db bench on day 4.

I'm even apprehensive about 4+ main lift. But I'll give it a crack because I am also apprehensive about neglecting areas (can't f'n win).

At the end of the day, if I follow my plan, I should progress and reach my goals. Albeit with a little tinkering here and there.

I'm still really unsure on an ideal rep/set number for balanced strength/hypertrophy gains. Everyone seems to have their own magic number.. Do I just have to find my own through trial & error??
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Re: Feedback sought on new program

Post by ozzy » Mon Apr 02, 2012 8:42 pm

Just quickly, what are peoples opinions on doing the bench as an accessory on press day and vice versa??

Thinking maybe something like this...



DAY 1
AM SPRINTS

Bench - 531
Press - 5x10
DB rows - 5x10
Tricep Pushdowns - 5x10
DB Laterals - 5x10

DAY 2
Squat - 531
GM - 5x10
Hyperextensions - 5x10 (don't have a GHR bench at my gym)
+ab work

DAY 3
REST

DAY 4
AM SPRINTS

Press - 531
Bench - 5x10
Lat Pulldowns - 5x10
BB Curls - 5x10
Face Pulls - 5x10

DAY 5
DL - 531
Leg Press - 5x10
Leg Curls - 5x10
+ab work

DAY 6
REST

DAY 7
REST
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Re: Feedback sought on new program

Post by robt-aus » Mon Apr 02, 2012 10:26 pm

ozzy wrote: I'm still really unsure on an ideal rep/set number for balanced strength/hypertrophy gains. Everyone seems to have their own magic number.. Do I just have to find my own through trial & error??
Yes.

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Proper Knob
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Re: Feedback sought on new program

Post by Proper Knob » Tue Apr 03, 2012 3:27 am

Personally, i wouldn't do 5 x 10 for all assistance exercises. It's a nice amount of volume for the multi-joint exercises but you don't need do do that many for curls, pressdowns, lateral raises and facepulls, 2 or 3 sets is fine.

Pressing after benching and vice versa is fine, i would also switch GM's and Leg Press. But that's just my personal preference. Be warned, 5 x 10 for lower body sucks, especially if you keep the rests short. Have fun.
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Stephen Johnson
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Re: Feedback sought on new program

Post by Stephen Johnson » Tue Apr 03, 2012 8:11 am

ozzy wrote:I'm still really unsure on an ideal rep/set number for balanced strength/hypertrophy gains. Everyone seems to have their own magic number.. Do I just have to find my own through trial & error??
Bingo. Experience is the best teacher.
Thanks TimD

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Re: Feedback sought on new program

Post by Jungledoc » Wed Apr 04, 2012 7:48 am

ozzy wrote:Just quickly, what are peoples opinions on doing the bench as an accessory on press day and vice versa??
Yep.
Our greatest fear should not be of failure, but of succeeding at things in life that don't really matter.--Francis Chan

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Re: Feedback sought on new program

Post by stuward » Wed Apr 04, 2012 10:03 am

Stephen Johnson wrote:
ozzy wrote:I'm still really unsure on an ideal rep/set number for balanced strength/hypertrophy gains. Everyone seems to have their own magic number.. Do I just have to find my own through trial & error??
Bingo. Experience is the best teacher.
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ozzy
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Re: Feedback sought on new program

Post by ozzy » Wed Apr 04, 2012 12:35 pm

Just quietly Steve Johnson is one of the premier players in Aussie Rules.... our season just started last week.. never mind carry on
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Stephen Johnson
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Re: Feedback sought on new program

Post by Stephen Johnson » Wed Apr 04, 2012 8:29 pm

stuward wrote:Welcome back!!
Thanks, but I never left - somehow, this thread moved me to get out of lurker status. People getting caught in analysis paralysis drives me up the wall.

Nike got it right when they said "Just do it."
ozzy wrote:Just quietly Steve Johnson is one of the premier players in Aussie Rules.... our season just started last week.. never mind carry on
I was 6'6" and skinny as a kid - basketball and track were my sports, not football.

ozzy the Aussie - it has a nice ring to it. Hope you got to the gym today
Thanks TimD

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