Low-Volume Training - please help

Discussion of peer refereed articles and clinical applications

Moderators: Ironman, Jungledoc, ianjay, stuward

User avatar
emil3m
Apprentice
Apprentice
Posts: 196
Joined: Sun Jun 24, 2012 2:45 pm

Re: Low-Volume Training - please help

Post by emil3m » Wed Jun 27, 2012 2:32 pm

Jungledoc wrote:I'm confused by the knee issues. I would expect that "misaligned patellae" would be made worse by intense elliptical or bike work, and that properly-planned resistance work would help a lot. Who diagnosed the "misaligned patellae" and how?
I don't have insurance right now, but my friend's dad is physical therapist. The diagnosis was in 3 parts. Me telling him all the symptoms I've been having. Him testing me through different exercises. Finally an x-ray (couldn't afford an MRI).
Jungledoc wrote: Yeah, the lack of real leg work bothers me. ...
... It's true that cartilage doesn't regenerate, but you can also stop damaging it by getting things balanced a bit better.
Great info! I am doing several strengthening and balance things on a stability ball.
Also have been trying to do various things from the exercise repository on this website:
- Lunge and Squat - failed miserably even with body weight.. Knees feel extremely shaky and it was painful.
- The stiff leg straight back variation of deadlift worked
- Bent knee good mornings (the straight-leg hurt)
- Wall squat using a stability ball (w light dumbbells)

Any of that useful for me?
Anything you can add? (other than free weights and stability ball, I have a lat machine with pulldown and row pulleys. no other machines.)
Jungledoc wrote: And you apparently took my comment about thinking like a body builder as a compliment!
Now I feel stupid :)
Jungledoc wrote:Compound work should be the MAJORITY of your work. You should plan your training around movements, not muscles.
Well, I'm off to the gym for some horizontal push, vertical pull and horizontal pull.
I use the repository of this website exclusively and try to always pick those that are listed as compound. Is that a safe bet or is it still too bodybuilding-ish?

Cheers!

User avatar
stuward
moderator
moderator
Posts: 6600
Joined: Sat Mar 10, 2007 5:44 pm
Location: Halifax, NS

Re: Low-Volume Training - please help

Post by stuward » Wed Jun 27, 2012 4:30 pm

emil3m wrote: I use the repository of this website exclusively and try to always pick those that are listed as compound. Is that a safe bet or is it still too bodybuilding-ish?

Cheers!
It's a start. A rule of thumb that I use is that the bulk (~80%) of your workout should be the big lifts (squat, hinge, press, pull, carry). Most of the rest should be exercises that use the whole body. Most of these are in the Olympic-style Weightlifting, Plyometric, or Kettlebell sections. Any time it's hard to tell what muscles an exercise works, you're probably getting a lot of bang for your buck.
Stu Ward
_________________
Let thy food be thy medicine, and thy medicine be thy food.~Hippocrates
Strength is the adaptation that leads to all other adaptations that you really care about - Charles Staley
_________________
Thanks TimD

User avatar
emil3m
Apprentice
Apprentice
Posts: 196
Joined: Sun Jun 24, 2012 2:45 pm

Re: Low-Volume Training - please help

Post by emil3m » Wed Jun 27, 2012 4:54 pm

stuward wrote:A rule of thumb that I use is that the bulk (~80%) of your workout should be the big lifts (squat, hinge, press, pull, carry). Most of the rest should be exercises that use the whole body. Most of these are in the Olympic-style Weightlifting, Plyometric, or Kettlebell sections. Any time it's hard to tell what muscles an exercise works, you're probably getting a lot of bang for your buck.
I will check out these sections--thanks!

Hinge is something like a Good Morning? What do you mean by carry? (I googled both, but didn't see something definitive)

User avatar
stuward
moderator
moderator
Posts: 6600
Joined: Sat Mar 10, 2007 5:44 pm
Location: Halifax, NS

Re: Low-Volume Training - please help

Post by stuward » Thu Jun 28, 2012 4:44 am

emil3m wrote:
stuward wrote:A rule of thumb that I use is that the bulk (~80%) of your workout should be the big lifts (squat, hinge, press, pull, carry). Most of the rest should be exercises that use the whole body. Most of these are in the Olympic-style Weightlifting, Plyometric, or Kettlebell sections. Any time it's hard to tell what muscles an exercise works, you're probably getting a lot of bang for your buck.
I will check out these sections--thanks!

Hinge is something like a Good Morning? What do you mean by carry? (I googled both, but didn't see something definitive)

Hinge is any hip dominant exercise, including deadlift, good morning, kettlebell swing, etc. A carry is walking while carrying a weight, farmer's walks being the classic example.

I'm a fan of Dan John and these are the 5 movements he recommends.
Stu Ward
_________________
Let thy food be thy medicine, and thy medicine be thy food.~Hippocrates
Strength is the adaptation that leads to all other adaptations that you really care about - Charles Staley
_________________
Thanks TimD

Oscar_Actuary
Veteren Member
Veteren Member
Posts: 2406
Joined: Tue Oct 19, 2010 1:12 pm

Re: Low-Volume Training - please help

Post by Oscar_Actuary » Thu Jun 28, 2012 11:42 am

I just bought an inexpensive Heavy Bag
I'm still thinking where and how to hang it (I want to have access to remove and remount regularly); but for now, it makes a great carry bag for bear hugs or over the shoulder.
Not as flexible as sand bags, but I wasn't really worrying about varying the weight for this purpose anyway.

User avatar
Dub
Advanced Member
Advanced Member
Posts: 1142
Joined: Wed Sep 14, 2011 1:40 pm
Location: Lapland, Finland

Re: Low-Volume Training - please help

Post by Dub » Mon Jul 02, 2012 2:47 pm

I forgot to answer these a while back. Nevertheless, I'm on the same tracks with Stu, Pulling,Pressing,Leg+Hip work and Carries is all that you need (so to speak). But it's not a must to desing a program like that, it should just include all of these things. If possible, pulls and legs+hips taking more time and effort than pressing. Carries are a bonus in my mind.
So you suggest that I do no more than 5 exercises per workout? In other words 10 sets?
I'm ready to change my routine as I see it's poorly designed.
Good stuff. With this in mind, I am really thinking about a 2 way split...
A: Intense, low vol -- Chest, Back, Legs**, Abs
B: Moderate, moderate vol -- Arms, Shoulders, Abs
Even if you are a bodybuilder, you really don't need lots of exercises. I would still add you more sets. I'm wondering if two sets is enough to get the optimal results. Use big compound exercises first, then Isolate or do another big compound exercise. I don't see the point beyond three or four exercises for the same muscle group. For what I've noticed, Chest and Back are a great combination to try to superset for one exercise.
What do you like for lateral delts other than lat raises?
I've never really done much of lateral delt exercises to be honest. My goals aren't around isolated hyperthrophy so they aren't necessary for me. I do Overhead presses to develop my shoulders. And rear delts for (p)re-hab. Lateral deltoids aren't that easy to deal with since their main function is very limited. Abduct the humerus, laterally raise the arm. So lateral raises/flies are the best one I'd choose. Upright rows if you have the mobility and structure to do them.

Sean Hayes had a quirky lateral raise variation, try it out: Have DB's in both hands, first raise the other arm in lateral motion (to the side, duh). Keep it there, and do lateral raises with the other arm for 8-12 reps. Then switch the arm. You might need to pick a lighter DB for the isometric hold. It will be pain in the ass for the arm doing the isometric work. And unpolite for the other arm too.

Steve Pulcinella among many also like lateral raises:
http://asp.elitefts.net/qa/default.asp? ... 81&tid=179" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Physical Preparedness Coach
Co-Owner of UniFit Oy.

Oscar_Actuary
Veteren Member
Veteren Member
Posts: 2406
Joined: Tue Oct 19, 2010 1:12 pm

Re: Low-Volume Training - please help

Post by Oscar_Actuary » Mon Jul 02, 2012 4:33 pm

carries are under appreciated or at least un-represented here
I thank Stu for touting them.

you casn use them to target: core, grip, back, traps, cardio, PC.
And they'll pretty much hit all of them to some degree
Anyway, we could have a thread on them.

User avatar
emil3m
Apprentice
Apprentice
Posts: 196
Joined: Sun Jun 24, 2012 2:45 pm

Re: Low-Volume Training - please help

Post by emil3m » Thu Jul 05, 2012 12:12 am

Dub wrote:...
Thanks, Dub! That was helpful.
Image

User avatar
emil3m
Apprentice
Apprentice
Posts: 196
Joined: Sun Jun 24, 2012 2:45 pm

Re: Low-Volume Training - please help

Post by emil3m » Thu Jul 05, 2012 12:15 am

Oscar_Actuary wrote:carries are under appreciated or at least un-represented here
I thank Stu for touting them.

you casn use them to target: core, grip, back, traps, cardio, PC.
And they'll pretty much hit all of them to some degree
Anyway, we could have a thread on them.
These sound like great exercises. I am extremely limited by time and thus bought loads of iron to work out at my apartment. No proper room for carries :)
Image

Oscar_Actuary
Veteren Member
Veteren Member
Posts: 2406
Joined: Tue Oct 19, 2010 1:12 pm

Re: Low-Volume Training - please help

Post by Oscar_Actuary » Thu Jul 05, 2012 12:26 pm

go outside?

User avatar
emil3m
Apprentice
Apprentice
Posts: 196
Joined: Sun Jun 24, 2012 2:45 pm

Re: Low-Volume Training - please help

Post by emil3m » Thu Jul 05, 2012 9:38 pm

Oscar_Actuary wrote:go outside?
Where I live, it would be highly impractical (very urban). Time is a huge factor if I were to take weights and cab to a park or something creative like that. I'm nowhere near plateau with lifting so I have my hands full for now.
Image

User avatar
Jungledoc
moderator
moderator
Posts: 7578
Joined: Thu Feb 07, 2008 7:11 am
Location: Kudjip, Papua New Guinea

Re: Low-Volume Training - please help

Post by Jungledoc » Thu Jul 12, 2012 8:35 am

emil3m wrote: Great info! I am doing several strengthening and balance things on a stability ball.
Also have been trying to do various things from the exercise repository on this website:
- Lunge and Squat - failed miserably even with body weight.. Knees feel extremely shaky and it was painful.
- The stiff leg straight back variation of deadlift worked
- Bent knee good mornings (the straight-leg hurt)
- Wall squat using a stability ball (w light dumbbells)

Any of that useful for me?
Anything you can add? (other than free weights and stability ball, I have a lat machine with pulldown and row pulleys. no other machines.)
Yeah. The lunges and squats could help a lot. But if they are causing pain, don't start there. Try low step-ups. Just a step, maybe a foot high or so. If you can do that pain-free, increase the height. You could add some weight as you go along, dumbbells, or just hold weight plates. When you can do step-ups to knee height, then try going back to lunges. And maybe squats.
emil3m wrote:
Jungledoc wrote: And you apparently took my comment about thinking like a body builder as a compliment!
Now I feel stupid :)
Don't worry. I don't hate body builders. I just give them a hard time.

Seriously, for practical purposes, training for general fitness, thinking about individual muscles or even "muscle groups" (back, bis, chest, tris, etc) doesn't work as well as thinking movements. After all, isn't moving what you want to improve? Not to train a particular muscle to move on it's own, but to train all of your muscles to do things together?
emil3m wrote:I use the repository of this website exclusively and try to always pick those that are listed as compound. Is that a safe bet or is it still too bodybuilding-ish?

Cheers!
No, that's fine. And it doesn't all have to be compound, but that's what will give you the biggest bang for you time.
Our greatest fear should not be of failure, but of succeeding at things in life that don't really matter.--Francis Chan

User avatar
emil3m
Apprentice
Apprentice
Posts: 196
Joined: Sun Jun 24, 2012 2:45 pm

Re: Low-Volume Training - please help

Post by emil3m » Thu Jul 12, 2012 1:53 pm

Will do the step-ups, thanks for that!

I see kettlebell training in my future. Perhaps use that as a means to change it up when I hit a plateau in weightlifting.
Image

Post Reply