Gun Control

Off topic discussions. Feel free to talk about anything here.

Moderators: Ironman, Jungledoc, ianjay, stuward

Matt Z
Deific Wizard of Sagacity
Deific Wizard of Sagacity
Posts: 4505
Joined: Tue Apr 25, 2006 1:19 pm
Location: Pennsylvania
Contact:

Re: Gun Control

Post by Matt Z » Wed Jan 16, 2013 10:06 pm

"The way I understand armor-piercing is that bullet has a hardened core instead of a lead center." - stuward

That's correct, but unfortunately the term is sometimes used incorrectly in much the same way that semi-auto rifles are sometimes described as assault rifles.

Matt Z
Deific Wizard of Sagacity
Deific Wizard of Sagacity
Posts: 4505
Joined: Tue Apr 25, 2006 1:19 pm
Location: Pennsylvania
Contact:

Re: Gun Control

Post by Matt Z » Sat Jan 19, 2013 9:48 am

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000142 ... 96068.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I've noticed a number of politicians mension "reinstating" federal the assault weapons ban. This is very misleading as the proposed new ban is far more restrictive than the old one. For example, it includes registration of existing weapons (the old one did not).

User avatar
Ironman
Site Admin
Site Admin
Posts: 3991
Joined: Tue Jun 06, 2006 11:40 am

Re: Gun Control

Post by Ironman » Mon Jan 21, 2013 9:58 am

That looks like some slanted right wing bull$h1t, but the point still stands. Definitely a bad idea. I don't see that making it anywhere though. I would be surprised if they could even get the majority of Democrats to support that.

Matt Z
Deific Wizard of Sagacity
Deific Wizard of Sagacity
Posts: 4505
Joined: Tue Apr 25, 2006 1:19 pm
Location: Pennsylvania
Contact:

Re: Gun Control

Post by Matt Z » Mon Jan 21, 2013 10:14 pm

http://www.nraila.org/news-issues/fact- ... px?s&st&ps" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

More on "assault weapons"

User avatar
Ironman
Site Admin
Site Admin
Posts: 3991
Joined: Tue Jun 06, 2006 11:40 am

Re: Gun Control

Post by Ironman » Tue Jan 22, 2013 8:29 am

A lot of fallacious logic there, but they're right about the guns themselves, and right overall.

User avatar
Jungledoc
moderator
moderator
Posts: 7578
Joined: Thu Feb 07, 2008 7:11 am
Location: Kudjip, Papua New Guinea

Re: Gun Control

Post by Jungledoc » Wed Jan 30, 2013 1:40 am

I saw two "a gun is like a parachute" quotes today:
"A gun is like a parachute. When you need one and don't have one, you'll probably never need one again."
And, "A gun is like a parachute. When you need one, nothing else will work.
Our greatest fear should not be of failure, but of succeeding at things in life that don't really matter.--Francis Chan

Rucifer
Member
Member
Posts: 928
Joined: Sat Dec 20, 2008 11:21 pm
Location: Ohio, USA

Re: Gun Control

Post by Rucifer » Thu Jan 31, 2013 9:11 am

I am starting to wonder why gun control has become the main issue in politics over the last two months. I mean the obvious answer is the sandy hook shooting, and not trying to dismiss that event because it was absolutely horrendous beyond belief, but there have been plenty of bad mass shootings in the last couple of years. Well, mass shootings are ALWAYS bad. But I rarely heard much even after the movie theater shooting, as far as gun control goes.

User avatar
Ironman
Site Admin
Site Admin
Posts: 3991
Joined: Tue Jun 06, 2006 11:40 am

Re: Gun Control

Post by Ironman » Thu Jan 31, 2013 10:03 am

It's the number of shootings over the past few years. That is it 100%. It's nothing but a reaction. I think what the president has already done is plenty. I don't think the legislation is really needed. I am also very much opposed to "assault weapon" bans. I also think there is no way it will pass. There just isn't much support for it. Everything with broad public support revolves around enforcement and such which the president already addressed. So the issue should go away later in the year.

The executive orders should also cut down on shootings, which should in turn prevent the issue from coming to the foreground again. That's why I don't get the reaction to it by some gun owners. I would think something that makes the issue go away without changing what they can buy would be perfect.

Matt Z
Deific Wizard of Sagacity
Deific Wizard of Sagacity
Posts: 4505
Joined: Tue Apr 25, 2006 1:19 pm
Location: Pennsylvania
Contact:

Re: Gun Control

Post by Matt Z » Thu Jan 31, 2013 5:22 pm

"I am starting to wonder why gun control has become the main issue in politics over the last two months. I mean the obvious answer is the sandy hook shooting, and not trying to dismiss that event because it was absolutely horrendous beyond belief, but there have been plenty of bad mass shootings in the last couple of years. Well, mass shootings are ALWAYS bad. But I rarely heard much even after the movie theater shooting, as far as gun control goes." - Rucifer

I think it has a lot to do with timing. The president largely avoided the topic of gun control durring his first term, because it's a politically risky subject. Even after major mass-shootings, he kept pretty quiet. However, in his second term he's no longer concerned with winning re-election, and willing to take more risks. That's the big difference between Sandy Hook and all the other recent mass-shootings.

There's also evidence that much of the recent gun control push was planned well before the election. For example, the president briefly mensioned the possibility of a new "assault weapon" ban durring the presidential debates.

Matt Z
Deific Wizard of Sagacity
Deific Wizard of Sagacity
Posts: 4505
Joined: Tue Apr 25, 2006 1:19 pm
Location: Pennsylvania
Contact:

Re: Gun Control

Post by Matt Z » Thu Jan 31, 2013 5:27 pm

"I am also very much opposed to "assault weapon" bans. I also think there is no way it will pass. There just isn't much support for it." - Ironman

I'm less certain. ... But even if the new federal ban fails, the New York ban passed, and it's possible other state and local bans will follow.

hoosegow
Veteren Member
Veteren Member
Posts: 2003
Joined: Wed Dec 28, 2005 6:40 am
Location: Texas

Re: Gun Control

Post by hoosegow » Thu Jan 31, 2013 8:19 pm

Rucifer wrote:I am starting to wonder why gun control has become the main issue in politics over the last two months. I mean the obvious answer is the sandy hook shooting, and not trying to dismiss that event because it was absolutely horrendous beyond belief, but there have been plenty of bad mass shootings in the last couple of years. Well, mass shootings are ALWAYS bad. But I rarely heard much even after the movie theater shooting, as far as gun control goes.
I truthfully think it has more to do with invalidating the constitution and less to do with actual gun control. It is an easy right to go after. You make removal of one right palatable, you can make others. Someone sees and opportunity to use an emotional event in order to remove a basic right. The same group seeks to ridicule the freedom of religion right. There is even movements to remove freedom of speech or at least alter it.

You lose your ability to protect yourself - you must rely on the government.

I hope I'm wrong.
Thanks TimD.

User avatar
Ironman
Site Admin
Site Admin
Posts: 3991
Joined: Tue Jun 06, 2006 11:40 am

Re: Gun Control

Post by Ironman » Fri Feb 01, 2013 9:12 am

You make removal of one right palatable
Too late. WAY too late. We have lost a lot, and people try to justify it with lame excuses. Fear is the killer of liberty. Many people now don't know how precious these rights are either.

It's been a long time since there has really been freedom of religion. It's very invasive in government. The government should have no mention of religion at all. That's the only way for everyone to be free to have whatever religion they want, or none at all, without worrying about discrimination.

User avatar
Ironman
Site Admin
Site Admin
Posts: 3991
Joined: Tue Jun 06, 2006 11:40 am

Re: Gun Control

Post by Ironman » Fri Feb 01, 2013 9:19 am

The president largely avoided the topic of gun control durring his first term, because it's a politically risky subject.
Actually he never talked about it even before he was president. He only started talking about it after Sandy Hook. A lot of people never talked about it until then. That's because it's not their issue, they were just upset about little kids being killed.

The president was put in a position where he has to respond and do something, but it has to be something that doesn't restrict guns rights much.

Even if I am wrong and Democrats can get better than 50% support in their party, it will get pretty much no Republican support. I think the issue will slowly go away though.

Matt Z
Deific Wizard of Sagacity
Deific Wizard of Sagacity
Posts: 4505
Joined: Tue Apr 25, 2006 1:19 pm
Location: Pennsylvania
Contact:

Re: Gun Control

Post by Matt Z » Fri Feb 01, 2013 10:17 pm

"Actually he never talked about it even before he was president. He only started talking about it after Sandy Hook." - Ironman

That's not true. Over the years he's expressed support for a number or restrictive gun control laws including the DC handgun ban (which has since been found unconstitutional). His voting record was also very pro-gun-control.

User avatar
Ironman
Site Admin
Site Admin
Posts: 3991
Joined: Tue Jun 06, 2006 11:40 am

Re: Gun Control

Post by Ironman » Sat Feb 02, 2013 10:47 am

examples? evidence?

Post Reply